To raise a safeguarding issue with church regarding playgroup?

[Bornunderpunches]

my 2.5 year old son managed to escape the church playgroup. I was just chatting to another mum when I looked up and realised he wasn’t in the hall. He can’t have been longer than 20 seconds from when I’d last seen him and I got up and went looking for him, however being heavily pregnant I’m much slower than him at this point. all the doors were left open and when I got to him he had managed to run across the busy road just about 15 metres from the front door of the church. luckily a passer by had got to him and pulled him out of the road. Ive been going to the group for around a year and nobody in particular runs the group and we’re just left to our own devices, the church has no input whatsoever they just let us use the hall. we buy the biscuits and milk and what not, get all the toys out ourselves and put them away etc. When I told the office in a complete state of shock they were completely dismissive of the issue and said how they leave the doors open for mothers and children to easily access the group and acted like it was nothing to do with them. I just feel like such an awful mother and unsure of how to approach the situation because I don’t know whether this would be considered my fault as the church don’t have anyone supervising the group or the church’s fault for not having more in place for safeguarding in the first place.

Begging your pardon I’m sure m’lud……..

I've bene to these type of groups for many years and agree with others that the onus is on you to supervise your child. No-one should be leaving doors open if it's close to a main road so that needs addressing but I can't see how the church is responsible when they are just renting out a room?

The church has a duty of care and the CofE is very strict on this.

The church will have a safeguarding policy which users of its premises will have to abide by even if this is a one-off event like a birthday party.

Somebody signed this off so yes technically somebody is responsible for keeping children and vulnerable adults safe in that group. I suspect they’d say the ‘safeguarding’ element is that parents accompany their own child and are therefore responsible.

It comes down to you op - and that is no judgement - we’ve all done it. But I hope you learn from this that no policy or complaints form will keep your child safe. Stop looking to blame others and just accept that you have to be 100% attentive when in public places with small children.

If I was in charge of the church and you brought this to me, I would be very concerned that there is no-one taking responsibility for the group, no safeguarding policy, and presumably no insurance. I would then withdraw offer of the use of the space. I would also be checking all the other groups that use the hall and cancelling their arrangements, unless they had a named person talking the responsibility, and that the group was insured.

It's way too much risk for the church to take, in today's world.

Could you make a sign for the door asking parents to shut it?

And a sign on the inner doors reminding parents they must supervise their children at all times?

I think the best way to prevent this from happening to others is to ask the person who rents the hall/sets up/etc to ensure that the exit routes are properly secure. And circulate the message to parents coming in/out to close doors behind them. It’s not down to the church to ensure that the group supervises their attendees (children) and keeps them inside by closing doors behind themselves, etc.

This isn’t a church safeguarding issue—I do safeguarding at my church and it’s about ensuring that the adults who work with children in the church adhere to appropriate boundaries, and know how to report if they suspect that a child is being neglected/abused.

Yes there is, you and a few other parents could take responsibility for the group and agree a set of safety measures, such as a rota for monitoring the door.

Unfortunately those sounds like one of those situations where everyone expects someone else to take responsibility for organising, and will moan if it isn't done, but do not want to step up themselves. This isn't a moan at you specifically, but more as observation as someone who runs a volunteer led group, everyone wants to get their child in and moans about the wait list, but when we ask for volunteers a couple times a term for an hour, there is a no response.

I wouldn't raise a safeguarding, it will just highlight the fact you weren't keeping an eye on your child. I'm glad he was okay though.

Sorry.

i used to be on the parochial church council at my last house and lots of people did get them mixed up.
they only actually separated in the nineteenth century to be fair so for most of English history you would be correct….

I would contact the person whose name is on the booking - or the person at the church who orchestrates the bookings - to discuss it. Or is there a WhatsApp group or similar for the playgroup? Maybe start a discussion on that.

Discuss what? The fact the church has doors?

If nothing is agreed I wouldn't return because a playgroup your kids can escape from is completely pointless.

😂

Ours was always set up at the bottom of the hall and parents chairs almost formed a barrier infront of the door. To help prevent escapes

Yes it's harsh but the only person to blame here is OP.

I help at a church toddler group. We have four staff and one sits at a desk next to the door to the hall. At other groups I have been to there have been safety gates. I do think you should try again to contact the church and reply it as a near miss, maybe e-mail and ask for their safeguarding or health and safety contact? It's a bizarre setup to run a group unstaffed and I wonder if they have done a risk assessment.

What are you laughing at with the stupid bell end laughing face emoji? Some of the replies on this thread are just actively mean. As I said in my comment, 'of course it's your responsibility' but do people honestly not think there remains a collective responsibility for all our children's safety?

In this case the op took her eye off her kids for a second and he ran out of the open door. This could be easily prevented by people making sure the doors are closed like at every other playgroup I've ever been to - people are pretty fanatical about it. I'm well past that stage now but a place where you can have adult conversation and be reasonably sure your kid is not going to die if you take an eye off it for a second was a lifeline for those of us not lucky enough to have childcare on tap. It's not about putting the onus on other people it's about sharing the load.

Even if the parents are utterly neglectful shits do none of you feel any responsibility towards preventing a toddler getting run over even if it's not yours? Jeez.

Always someone else's fault.

It sounds like it’s completely unmanaged which is a recipe for disaster, which unfortunately you’ve found out! Hope you’re okay OP.

The church group I went to when mine were toddlers had a volunteer who sat at a desk right by the doors. There were swing doors to the toilets but then those were right next to the main building door so it really needed surveillance. I think if you all want the group to run maybe a rota for someone to keep watch sitting by the main door? Are there any people you could rope in to volunteer (the lovely lady who did it at ours was one of the children’s grandmothers)? Whoever leads the toddler session really needs to manage it with extra pairs of hands.

Its is your responsibility to supervise YOUR child regardless to where ever you are!

If the church have no input and just let you use the hall then I don’t think it’s anything to do with them, surely it must be down to all of the adults there if no one in particular is in charge.

He didn't run through an open door.
He pushed open the closed swing doors... then ran through another set of doors (possibly open) and managed to run across the road

That's not taking your eyes off him for a second

That's completely having no clue where your kid is.

Who are these 'people' responsible for OP's child or any other child? These people are OP and the other parents. Being vague about who they are just shows that everyone -and noone - is ultimately responsible. They are all thinking it's some else's job.

Which is lovely, but totally irrelevant.

The OP says that this group is self-managed. The mums themselves get the toys out and sort the teas and coffee. There are no "staff". It's no different from a group of mums meeting up in Starbucks and thinking the baristas should have "safeguarding" policies to stop their kids running into the road.

If the OP starts going on about safeguarding and policies and risk assessments and the rest of it, the church will just say fuck that for a game of soldiers and stop the group having the space. So everyone loses out because the OP wasn't on the ball.

I'm sure it was scary, the very same thing happened to me in IKEA, my then non talking 18 month old ran off in a split second, I also had my newborn in a pram. It was all fine but at no point did I think to flag it to IKEA as a safeguarding incident as it was totally on my watch. I am afraid your scenario is the same.

The thing is, I am sure you like this place espcially because it's a bit ad-hoc and not too rigid with rules etc, you and your fellow mums can sort of do it yourself. If you want to keep it that way then don't report anything. If you want to get the play group shut down as the church will realise it's too much hassle renting out the hall due to all rules imposed then report

Agree with most posters.

I used to do bookings for a hall. All hirers, whether long term hirers like brownies, or one-off events, signed T&C's which clearly stated they were responsible for the hall and any insurances etc.

On the basis that it's not a church run event, then your first port of call lies with the person who signed the hire agreement.

Yes why don't you raise a safeguarding concern for your own failure to supervise your child and then get the place closed down because the insurers won't cover it. I would suggest a better option would be to speak to someone informally, let them know what happened and ask them if anything could be done to make the space a bit more secure.

I'm amazed the group has gone on for so long without a leader. Who lets the group in/ out? I know for a fact our warden would be raising issue about the group if she was letting in "Clare" every week to set up when "sally" made the booking. She would be asking for a new group leader to be appointed or the group would no longer be able to hire the hall.

You can definitely ask whoever is on the paperwork in charge of the group to adopt a doors closed or door monitoring policy. As the group leader on paper is no longer there you will have to organise this with the other mums. However, this would probably only work for the door to your hall and not the external doors. If your hall is like ours, our hall has 3 rooms (2 large ones and a smaller one), our playgroup is run in 1 hall, knitting club in the second hall and the WI meet once a month in the smaller room. There is so much coming/ going happening that keeping the external door closed is logistically Very hard. Then there is what we had last month when the church roof was been repaired and contractors were allowed access to the church hall for the toilets and to make drinks. They were a nightmare - left doors open, tools everywhere ect.