To not want to punish DD during my custody time?

[MummaDelly]

Ex and I have been separated 3 years, DD is just about to turn 7. Custody is 50:50.

DD is overall a lovely child, always great school reports, great feedback from friends families and after school clubs etc. She likes rules and routines and tends to question things and wants to learn and understand.

For me she is great, obviously has the odd issue but doesn’t really tantrum. Can usually talk it through and she listens to reason. I have a chore chart and behaviour chart for her which she loves.

Recently my ex has reported DD has been naughty for him, will talk back or completley
ignore him sometimes. I spoke to her about this and she didn’t really have an answer for why she behaved like that and denied some of his claims. I know how he parents and it is different to me, he changes his mind a lot and on one day a certain behaviour will be funny to him but the next he gets frustrated by it. He will have loads of patience and ask multiple times for her to tidy her room but get annoyed if she leaves her shoes beside the shoe rack.

I offered to chat over the phone about how we can handle this together which he didn’t really seem keen on, I sent him photos of our chore charts etc and offered to print the same for him. I also said we could chat to DD together but again he didn’t really jump at this idea. I think he is a bit defensive of his parenting.

This weekend he had her the whole time and called my on Sunday to say that he had missed his mums birthday thing because DD had refused to get dressed out of her PJs, so they had to stay at home because “I’m not going to wrestle her into clothes, she’s not a baby”…

Next weekend I have plans with my friends, their children and my DD and exH said he had told DD she wasn’t going to go. I said to him that it’s not reasonable to punish her a week later and that I’ve already bought tickets etc and that I hadn’t experienced any of this bad behaviour. He also said that he is not going to renew her gymnastics club for after Easter if she doesn’t start behaving better but that seems really severe to me.

I don’t know how to help or advise him. Maybe I do need to be stricter…? It’s hard because I don’t see this bad behaviour

He sounds ridiculous, and I agree with a pp that he could do with parenting classes. Ridiculous in the first place he let a 7 yo make him miss his Mum’s birthday- he should have dressed her or taken her in pjs with clothes in a bag if things were as he said.

Do you suspect that his version of events is not true? Your update implies this. Is he doing it out of spite in some way? Not jumping to that conclusion but you seemed to imply that.

No, he doesn’t get to impose sanctions on your time, especially ones that involve other people and you, and you definitely don’t need to follow through for him.

Any consequences he puts in place should be immediately or very soon after the event. Not a week later ffs

My other rule is no consequences that inconvenience other people (save for perhaps the person giving the consequences if they decide so)

No. He needs to parent her himself. Not getting dressed isn't even a punishment situation, it's a FAFO situation. She'd go as she was and her cousins would laugh at her and she'd learn from it.

Obviously this isn’t what I wanted for her. I thought I did everything I could, took my time and established a great family for her to be born into. It wasn’t to be and I have constant guilt that I failed her. But she has been well adjusted until a couple of months ago, I thought we’d smashed the co parenting

Having to co parent with someone who has inconsistent rules themselves is very difficult, and it’s very hard for the child.

Children actually cope quite well with different rules for different houses - for example my exh has a “shoes off” house, and I don’t mind if shoes are kept on downstairs (although I usually wear indoor shoes myself).

What they don’t cope with is a parent who blows hot and cold, and sometimes thinks things are funny but sometimes comes down hard. You need to be internally consistent.

I don’t think he’s deliberately lying but I think there’s miss communication somewhere for it to escalate to this as it’s really unlike DD. But he doesn’t stay calm, he doesn’t get scary angry or anything but instead of sitting down a and asking why she doesn’t want to get dressed I can imagine he just went ‘you’re being ridiculous, just go and get dressed and stop being a baby’… something like that and then maybe walked away from her. Or if she’s trying to say she doesn’t want to wear specific clothes he’s picked out for her he won’t compromise or try to understand, he’ll just say “put it on and stop complaining”

I wasn’t there so I don’t know. I’ll hopefully get more detail when DD is home from school

To add to the above I can also imagine that when she first refused to get dressed he made a joke out of it, tickled her for being a “moody pants” etc, which he does often. And then got fed up and put his foot down which confused her

Exactly.

I havent read the thread, its not ok to punish a week later, the punishment needs to happen at the time of the transgression and ideally involve both of you at the time, even if the parent who hasnt got care of her at the time also speaks to her so that there is a joint message from both parents, jointly parenting her

Its impossible to say if she is 'acting up' for him becuase he does put the boundaies in and you dont, or whether he is too inconsistent and unpredictable so of course she doesnt understand the boundaries

Why dont you source the online parenting courses for managing behaviour/understanding developmental stages and do them together, they're only short each session so you can spend 20 mins doing them and reviewing together how its put into practice with your daughter.

This

You can't be his enforcer - nip that in the bud now. Otherwise what message is that sending? Dad is a wet lettuce who has to call for backup in the form of Mum to impose his consequences for him. Long term that will only be undermining his authority more!

I strongly suspect that he’s not dealing with it well and then expecting you to do the parenting heavy lifting.

I’d send him something in writing saying that of course you’ll work co-operatively but he is not to seek to impose sanctions which you have to enforce without discussing it with you first.

As others have said, why didn’t he just stick some clothes in a bag and she’d have got changed once they got there? Or missing the occasion would have been the punishment.

It’s also not your job to steer him through parenting. If he doesn’t know to pick his battles and that consequences should be immediate he needs to read some books or go on a course.

Honestly do not quiz her too much. It is bad enough that she is having to find ways of negotiating this shared parenting (which is none of her making) without stuff spilling over from one to the other. If she does something amiss on one place she should not have to endure being quizzed about it in both. Being piggy-in-the-middle is agony for anyone, let alone a child.

You do you - and if he decides to withdraw an activity that is in "his" time as a punishment there is not much you can do.

It sounds as though you have found a comfortable way of living with your DD and that she feels content with that side of things. But I do not think it is down to you to be asking her about actions when she is out of your orbit as it might feel just a bit too much for her.

However, there does need to be a way that you can organise a private conversation with your ex to achieve some consistency around sanctions and rules. But this should not involve talking with your DD about what happens at his place - just too much for such a small person to deal with.

If she does not like it at either place there will come a point as she grows when she just puts her foot down and refuses to go and, short of manhandling her, there is not a lot you can do.

She is in an impossible situation.

It's not hard to spot who is the better and most consistent parent here OP! Just the fact your ex isn't willing to work together with you on this issue shows that he could be a better dad.

I don't think you should punish her for behaviour at dads. If he's precious about you commenting on his parenting when you're just trying to help create consistency and help with the issues then he gets no say on punishment from you.

Another example of recent bad behaviour was he was taking her to a birthday party, I had bought the present with DD earlier and gave it to him when I dropped DD to his that morning. He forgot to take the present to the party and when they realised in the car DD said she didn’t want to go because she didn’t have a present to give. He said they could give it to the child at school next week but DD was still upset and when they went to the party there was a present table in the corridor and she didn’t want to go in past the present table without putting something on the table.

He was really cross about that and said she moped the whole party and there wasn’t a point in going. But she’s 6 and to her it’s a big deal to not give her friend a present, she was embarrassed

It sounds to me like you have good consistent rules on behaviour. I would tell your ex that you won't be punishing her for things she did with him because you weren't there to see what happened and you have observed him being inconsistent previously. Stay out of the gymnastics issue, that's up to him as he pays for it.
If a grown man can't get a 7-year-old to put her clothes on, he is clearly doing something wrong. As you say, taking her out in PJs would have been a punishment in itself. Possibly he didn't really want to go to the birthday?

It sounds like you negotiate a lot with your DD - letting her choose rewards, explaining why, talking things through, even coming up with extreme measures like letting her go out in pyjamas and taking a bag of clothes if she doesn’t want to get dressed. You give her a lot of control in a way that clearly works for you both in your house. You’re raising her to be curious and feel like she has equal say in decisions that impact her, which is a great thing, when it works.

But it’s a style that isn’t always available and she needs to learn that when an adult tells her to do something, she does it.

Does she get in trouble at school for talking back?

Only agree to punish/inact consequences instantly.
If DD does the crime then she does the time both with Dad.

Your DD is naughty not to get dressed.
That is a reasonable request and should need no discussion.
It's fine that her father parents in a more direct manner. Classrooms full of seven year olds are directed what to do every day.
A consequence would have been to travel to the party in her PJs. She then could have dressed in the car upon arrival because children can not be left in cars alone.

Discuss and agree with ex what is reasonable behaviour.
At seven she doesn't need micromanaging. She can dress, bathe, brush her teeth, read her reader, etc. and also use please and thank you, wait her turn, use table manners, be kind and listen to what she is asked to do - and do it.

Discuss, brain storm and make a list of acceptable and logical consequences such as ...
favourite toy up on fridge immediately, going to party in PJs, no sweets if vegies are not tasted, no TV tomorrow if can't leave screen and come to dinner etc.
Don't threaten anything that can not be carried out or is completely unrelated or is cruel or unequal to the crime..

Reward naturally with logical consequences too. An extra scoop of icecream, two books tonight, a new hair tie once dressed, giving her a responsible task like washing the dog, phoning Granny, positive feedback and compliments.

Remind DD that her Dad's house will be a little bit different and that is okay.

And what would you have done in this scenario?

Yeah I would've been cross with her too about that.

I've been to and had plenty of parties where the present has been given at school instead.

And let's face it, plenty of people will be walking past that table if their present is a card with money inside.

They'll normally hand that straight to the parents.

He doesn't get to impose sanctions that apply to your time without your prior consent .

You’ve tried to meet him halfway, he’s refused but you’re meant to be the one that doles out the punishment. If he takes his daughter to gymnastics and pays then again that’s up to him if he cancels it. He could just not go for 1 week as a preemptive to cancelling so she knows he means business. I wouldn’t be cancelling your plans. I would tell your ex that he needs to find his own parenting plan and to leave you out of it. She doesn’t miss behave for you

I’m sorry but someone who cannot get their 6 year old dressed, severe SEN issues aside, is simply a rubbish parent. He needs to get up on time, get a plan in place and sort her out. Or frankly, I’d have plopped her in the car in her pj’s and I bet she’d have been ready to get dressed by the time they rolled into the car park. It only took one time driving my 13 year old to the bus stop in her pj’s for her to make sure she was dressed and ready for school on time every morning. 🙄 She’s 6. He needs to enforce his own boundaries. Not get you to do it because he’s too lazy.

I’m horrified that he thinks an acceptable punishment is cancelling gymnastics. Sport is so so important for kids, plus it helps their behaviour, learning discipline and how to follow instructions. He needs better ways to manage her. Agree that he needs to do a parenting class.

Your DD's Dad should have expressed sadness that DD forgot the gift and assured her that she should just remember to give the gift at school on Monday, and to tell her friend that.

Your daughter seems dramatic and extra sensitive.
She will adjust to her Dad's way of succinct communication and just getting on with things.

Yes but you’re an adult that can reason that. She is 6. All she saw was her friends putting gifts on the table and in her young mind you always go to a party with a gift, so she was worried about not giving a gift. She has been to plenty of parties or seen plenty of gifts given the next day and hasn’t noticed parents giving money to the parents…