To let my daughter have a seat?

[NeedingAGoodNap]

I was on a tram in Melbourne recently with my 5 year old dd. We both managed to grab seats but the tram soon got busy and some people were standing.

A man, who appeared to be mid 20s, got annoyed that my daughter had a seat when adults were having to stand and was very vocal about this. He felt she should give him her seat!

I absolutely refused, we were on a low floor tram which can be very rocky and often stop very suddenly. My daughter is too short to reach any of the handles and would absolutely go flying if the tram hit the breaks. I also don’t feel like she needs to give her seat to a young adult just because she is a child.

Was I unreasonable to refuse to give him her seat?

Wow. That was my experience. I didn't say it was logical. I said it's what we were taught.

Unless he had some kind of invisible disability, HWBU to expect her to give up the seat for him. I'd suggest ignoring people like this completely so as not to encourage antisocial behaviour; if he DID need a seat, and that seat in particular, then he could have asked politely if you could sit the child on your lap so he could sit down.

I hope you don't come across him again, OP. As it is, just forget about it. He was clearly in the wrong.

🤣

I'm guessing a 5 year old doesn't pay? Or pays a lower fare. So it's fair enough when busy that they go on laps so adults can sit. But not especially young healthy looking men who moan. Out of principle I probably wouldn't have wanted him to sit as he was being rude.

I’m in my 30s and would never expect a child to give up a seat for me, they’re far more likely to fall than I am. I wouldn’t expect a teenager to give up a seat for me either, they got there first and are just as entitled to a seat as I am. Obviously different if a person is elderly, disabled or pregnant. I don’t understand why adults seem to think they deserve the seat more, it’s not even like the children travel for free, over 5s you usually pay for anyway. I wouldn’t make my DC get up for an able bodied adult, we got on first, obviously I’d put one on my lap to free up a seat but I wouldn’t make the other one stand, seats on public transport are for whoever gets there first (barring disability etc.)

In fairness, the OP answered this pretty quickly. I wouldn’t know the layout of teams where she is.

The problem with having small children standing on buses and trams is that you risk them ricocheting when the bus / tram stops and starts. Most public transport (actually, most things in general) seems to be designed for men who are about 5 ft10. I often give up my seat for small children for this reason.

YANBU
Children don't have the balance or stamina of adults and need to sit. DS fell on a bus when he was small and knocked a tooth out. That man was being ridiculous.

You were not unreasonable at all. On the London tube, we frequently stand for children and so do others. Otherwise they will get thrown around.

So many AIBUs are like that. I'm not saying this one is - maybe the OP is genuinely torn as to whether she was BU and should have let a man in his 20s have her DD's seat after he was "very vocal" (I think she is NBU) - but so many are purely for affirmation and positive strokes.

Yes, I was taught this too (a child of 80s/90s).

And I was, in the 60s and 70s.

I have voted YANBU

I would stand up to let a child sit down.

5 years old can be quite big to sit on laps.

My personal experience is that i find more seats taken up by bags than by kids.

Public transport is free for under 18s in Melbourne but i don't think it matters in terms of seats.
I have no problem with my kids standing on a train or a bus, but will always attempt to get them seated on a tram because they are shocking for sudden stops. Often they are so packed though you can't get near the seats and everyone just sort of stumbles about as they stop and start - but at least they can't fall far.

Nope, public transport is now free for minors in Melbourne. So she didn't have to pay to travel. So according to your comment, she isn't allowed to sit on a seat (that she hasn't paid for).
I grew up in Melbourne and we were always taught that our student fares did not entitle us to a seat, so if any adult was standing we should offer them our seat. A five year old can squeeze onto a parents lap, or - shock- the parent can stand and the child can sit down with all the bags. Not the end of the world. Not like it was a 2 hour cross-country trip!
Sure, the bloke was probably rude, but your 5yo shouldn't be sitting if adults are standing.

Five year olds should be on laps in busy public transport.

No idea about prices in Melbourne but over here, public transport prices are either the same or only slightly lower than adult prices. Charges often start at 5 years old and are the same until 18 years old.

Should a 16 year old also sit on my lap?

Couldn't you have moved across to the aisle seat and have her sit in your lap? Stick bag in luggage rack.

I've had done that, or just held onto her/upright between my knees if she's a massive chonk.

Maybe this is old-fashioned but I taught mine to stand for adults. I think it's just polite.

Your last sentence contradicts your previous suggestion though?

Bollocks.

5 year olds have less stability on moving transport than most healthy adults. So the decent and safest thing is to let them sit down.

And why should op stand up just to let another adult sit down? The male in this story needed to get a grip.

Yes it is old fashioned. And ridiculous.

Why would a man in his 20s be less capable of standing than a child of any age? Absolutely YANBU.

Trams dont have luggage racks. And most have very narrow seats that you'd struggle to fit a 5 year old child on your lap.

This
Unless you are heavily pregnant then it might not be practical. Otherwise, be a reasonable human being and get your child off a seat.

I don't think I have ever actually laughed out loud at something on here before now!