To let my daughter have a seat?

[NeedingAGoodNap]

I was on a tram in Melbourne recently with my 5 year old dd. We both managed to grab seats but the tram soon got busy and some people were standing.

A man, who appeared to be mid 20s, got annoyed that my daughter had a seat when adults were having to stand and was very vocal about this. He felt she should give him her seat!

I absolutely refused, we were on a low floor tram which can be very rocky and often stop very suddenly. My daughter is too short to reach any of the handles and would absolutely go flying if the tram hit the breaks. I also don’t feel like she needs to give her seat to a young adult just because she is a child.

Was I unreasonable to refuse to give him her seat?

He gave no reason other than he felt children should not sit when adults are standing. It felt like a bit of a tantrum to be honest.

this is not made up and I’m not a man hater!

I'm surprised at people suggesting she goes on your lap unless it was a very short journey. 5 is quite big for that, I'd have been in pain myself after more than 5-10 minutes with a 5 year old on my lap.

Personally I feel in general children should stand for adults though unless it's late in the day, exceptionally tired etc. It's how they learn balance! My dd used to cling on to me if she couldn't reach a handle. He was of course out of order to have a go.

What a big man, picking on a small girl child.

Probably when he was a child he was made to stand for adults, but he's misremembering it. Children might have been made to stand for pregnant women and the elderly, not young men.

Unless I suppose he had a hidden disability in which case he needed to use his words and maybe ask someone his age to give up his seat.

I travel on public transport a lot, and for many years and have never witnessed small children "flying around".
They're usually on seats or on carer's laps.

I think these situations are sometimes nuanced, there are all sorts of reasons why someone should/shouldn't sit in different circumstances (as have already been mentioned - disabilities, space issues etc). But an able-bodied twentysomething male is usually bottom of the pecking order imo 😂

Yes - the OP drip fed there was a reason she couldn’t do this 🙄

That's what we were always told as children, to give up our seats for an adult. Perhaps that's his experience. No need for him to be rude, though.

Regardless of whether your child could have sat on your lap, I don't understand why the man felt his needs were more than your child's (reading your post). Then when he didn't get his way he became vocal. That's a more pressing issue then whether your daughter should have sat on your knee.

Yeah he was an arsehole, I don't think you should have to put up with a man intimidatimg you and your child.

His argument that he should sit and a 5 yo should stand is ridiculous. She got the seat first. However if the train was packed, like other posters have said, I’d have put her on my lap..but maybe you had lots of bags on your lap or something. In which case, the child should have the seat. People on the tube often get up to offer my 5 yo a seat. If he’d asked politely if I could put her on my lap I would but if he was rude about it & started mouthing off there’s no way she’d be moving for him. What did he say exactly?

If he was such a grump about it I might have stood up and said ‘you obviously need this seat more than me’ and hopefully he would be embarrassed. A five year old kid is just as entitled to a seat as an able bodied 20 something.

Er he was being a dick OP, I’ve seen adults fall on buses when standing etc, I doubt he was disabled because he would have requested the seat nicely not just shouting randomly. If there are elderly, disabled people or pregnant women then yes they would take priority, but a twenty something man? Piss off

I don’t remember ever being taught to give up my seat for an adult. Is this what some people were taught as kids? These days adults are more likely to give up their seat for a child

If it was a pensioner then I think he has a case, as a man in his mid 20's probably an incel.

Also - I have a disability and I have chosen to stand and let my young child have my seat in the past. It's safer for them to not be standing in the gangway being barged past, knocked into by backpacks and suitcases, coffee spilt on them etc. If they really needed to stand I would be right next to them blocking all that or at least helping, I wouldn't make my child stand if I was sitting.

So you think you are right so why would it matter what we say if we say you have a bad attitude would this be ok?

Nope not unreasonable.
I would have stood if a pregnant lady, elderly or someone on crutches and kept a child on the seat. But not for a perfectly capable adult!

Yes, that's what we were explicitly taught, at home and at school. It was being polite and respectful to elders, we were told.
Times have changed of course, but I suspect on a crowded carriage, a small child could go on a lap, but clearly not in this instance.

😂😂😂😂😂

I don’t get how having a 5 year old on your lap is painful?!

unless it’s a 1 hour journey + there is no reason it shouldn’t be possible. Yes it might be a squeeze in a tight seat but it would be uncomfortable at most, not painful!

Wow, that's not my recollection. For the elderly, absolutely, and for visibly pregnant women or those on crutches, yes, you stand.

But expecting the under 7s to stand so a perfect healthy bloke in his 20s can sit? He's a rude entitled twerp.

Young children are safer sitting, they can't reach the hand holds safely.

As a small and once very slight person standing can be a nightmare. On the tube and bus I can only reach the vertical poles and on more than one occasion have been sent flying by men or their backpack barging past without any consideration or care for “shorties”.

So yep children are definitely much safer being seated when a lap isn’t an option.

Why does an able bodied adult take priority over a child who was sitting there first?

I presume a ticket for a seat was bought for the 5 year old?
Then she's allowed to sit on a seat. It's also safer for her.

20 year old bloke? Who didn't say anything about health needs? What a whiny man. The only people I'd give up a seat for is those really in need, disabled, elderly, pregnant. The rest it's first come first serve.