DSis says I'm awful for not letting her give DD14 a smartphone and that my gift for her is ridiculous, outdated and cruel.

[LuckyJadeMember]

DD14 is not allowed to have a smartphone. She uses a flip phone and has a thinkpad as well and is perfectly fine with it. Her birthday is next Sunday.

She likes to listen to music and the radio, but her phone doesn't have a music player so I bought a fiio music player on amazon, this one. It's 50 quid, and a nice blue colour. I also got her a case and screen protector for it.

I know what bands she listens to, so I went and bought some MP3 albums off bandcamp and amazon music, and put them on the MP3 player, and gave her a £100 bandcamp gift card too so she can buy some more music.

I also got her a nice portable canon as the camera on her phone is a bit naff, this one.

My sister met with me today because she wanted to show me what she got for her. It was an iPhone, the latest model. I said that she's not meant to have one, and that she won't be getting it so it'd be best to return it. It ended up in an argument, and DSis left the house angry. She called me later to yell at me and tell me how cruel I am for not allowing her to have a smartphone, and called me 'awful' and insulted my gifts several times.

AIBU?

Feels quite sad reading this. As if you couldnt move around and get on with your life without that damn thing.

Its never occurred to you that schooling for education is similar to institutionalising children, perhaps look at how institutions are run and see the similarities.

Children can socialise without having to attend a school, there are very many ways - especially sports, hobbies, brownies cubs, church, there are more than one institution around

When will you decide she’s old enough to accept presents?

Agree re kids. But OP said no one needed one.
Sister completely wrong to shout at her about it.

Our personal views on societal dependence on smartphones should be totally separate from parenting, though.

My opinion is that smartphones do have some negatives. We can’t turn the world back 25 years though, so it would be ludicrous to cut off my DC from their friends.

I think it's unwise to assume that because OP chooses not to have a smart phone and doesn't really do technology, that the DD doesn't want to either. The OP is so black and white in her views that the DD is unlikely to disagree. I think it's risky to impose so much on your children. I expect the DD will run for the hills when she's ready.

Thats your opinion though

studies are showing how much damage a teen brain suffers from smart phones, why wouldn't you wait and not endanger their growing brain?

Mumsnet is quite remarkable. For just about every issue a parent raises, the majority response is "You're the parent, your rules". But when the issue is smart phones, so many posters lose their minds over the notion that a teenager might not have one (I say teenager, the age at which so many people are willing to hand these things over to their child is dropping by the day, it seems).

Walking my dog en route to and past a high school every day, the majority of children I see have their faces buried in their smartphone screens. Even when they're walking with friends, they're glued to the screens. It really isn't healthy. And that's the least of our worries when we know perfectly well that so many of them are on TikTok and other apps that are very troubling indeed.

The schools I'm involved with - all three primary schools - report that in the past few years, the amount of trouble resulting from children having smartphones has gone through the roof. These things are NOT keeping children safe - quite the opposite.

But that’s the thing - you call phone calls antiquated, and then mention your son buys newspapers.

Why don’t we let people enjoy what they enjoy.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9566493/

Studies aren’t showing anything of the sort. The vast majority that aren’t pushing an agenda show no issue with sensible and balanced smartphone use.

Yanbu, but just to prevent having to buy mp3's, if you have Spotify, a mighty player is a good choice as it's compatible with Spotify. My DD (7) has one so she can create her playlists on a laptop then listen to them in the car etc on her mighty player.

We don't have any tablets, our kids will be getting flip phones when they start secondary school. Not sure when we would be ok with them switching to a smart phone if they wanted to, but I'd be bloody furious if someone else tried to weigh in and buy them a phone without our consent.

Because I’m not and didn’t impose my views on my son, as the OP is doing.

Why do you think home education doesnt develope social skills?
Thats a rather bizzare assumption.

Particularly the she can get one when she starts work -which could be years away

Yes, I'd agree with that. It's just very noticeable to me the number of adults who can't put their phones down, and blame the phone itself. A pp said, 'I hate how much time I spend on my phone' as though they have no personal agency.

It's that attitude I worry about continuing to foster. That the phone isn't a tool we own and use, that we are helpless to resist it, therefore we simply shouldn't have it. Smacks of prohibition, and we all know how well that didn't work.

It's like never having a knife in case you cut yourself, rather than learning how to use it without cutting yourself.

I'm 51, I didn't grow up with all this. I think we were better off without it, but I also think we had other hazards to navigate, and were given more autonomy to do so.

again thats your opinion, not fact

Is it possible that your daughter had confided in your sister that she would like one but knew she wouldn't be allowed or was feeling like the odd one out for not having one. The fact your daughter was talking about the phones other children have / new phones coming out suggests she may be interested. Your sister could be feeling really disappointed that she spent a lot of money on something she knew your daughter wanted or would help her fit in / keep in touch with friends in the way other people of her age do. Your sister should have spoken to you first but it might be worth having a conversation with her to find out why she got it.

I’d be concerned that if your daughter is not asking for a smart phone that she may have low self esteem. It’s extremely unusual for a teenage girl not to want an iPhone and I’d examine the reasons carefully if I was you.
It is entirely up to you whether she gets one or not and I am sure you are well meaning and completely convinced that your position is the right one. I think you’re wrong, as it would be better for your daughter to learn how to navigate modern life with all its trimmings, but it’s not my business - and it’s not your sister’s.

I do think your point is interesting and maybe not one I've thought enough of before. My worry is that phones and apps are designed to be addictive in a way that knives aren't designed to cut the user and I think that's something we should also have in mind when choosing who to give them to and how much we support a society that makes these devices essential.

At 15 both my dc were independent adults in training and treated as such, supported to make their own very capable decision about fashion, education, all sorts of things. I certainly wasn’t exercising this degree of control or expecting them to conform to my personally held ideals on technology and snacks and bedtime for example and as a result they could regulate themselves in a way a lot of other young people seem unable to do.

In my opinion you’ve wasted quite a lot of money there as all this would be inbuilt in a decent phone, including a camera. In a year she will have a part time job and earn her own cash, better to prepare now or how will you feel about losing this hold over her?

The OP can do what she likes. Her house. Her rules. Just find it a tad amusing that two posters have said I don't need a smart phone when I actually do

The posters posting on here with no smart phone -you must be posting from a PC or a laptop -still technology

My GP surgery is online, they use ask my GP , I can't phone them and I use my phone to book appointments or raise any issues.

When you are disabled and bed bound like I was in 2024 for a time. Id have been lost without my phone

Haven’t RTFT but just the amount of people voting saying you’re BU has me wanting to bang my head against a wall. Does nobody keep up to date with the dangers of these things? Completely stupid or ignorant.
Stand your ground OP

I don’t know what to think really! Half impressed they you remain phone free in our society and smart phone use is proven to be bad for teens.

But honestly don’t know any average 14 plus teen without a phone it’s how they communicate and make plans. So I would worry about social isolation. We held off as long as we could but dd1 was getting really distressed that she was being left out of plans was the only one without a phone. It was hard being the cause of the upset. So inevitably we gave in.

Agree 100%

Posters are saying they’re perfectly safe with strict controls and supervision… so they are clearly very dangerous then!