DSis says I'm awful for not letting her give DD14 a smartphone and that my gift for her is ridiculous, outdated and cruel.

[LuckyJadeMember]

DD14 is not allowed to have a smartphone. She uses a flip phone and has a thinkpad as well and is perfectly fine with it. Her birthday is next Sunday.

She likes to listen to music and the radio, but her phone doesn't have a music player so I bought a fiio music player on amazon, this one. It's 50 quid, and a nice blue colour. I also got her a case and screen protector for it.

I know what bands she listens to, so I went and bought some MP3 albums off bandcamp and amazon music, and put them on the MP3 player, and gave her a £100 bandcamp gift card too so she can buy some more music.

I also got her a nice portable canon as the camera on her phone is a bit naff, this one.

My sister met with me today because she wanted to show me what she got for her. It was an iPhone, the latest model. I said that she's not meant to have one, and that she won't be getting it so it'd be best to return it. It ended up in an argument, and DSis left the house angry. She called me later to yell at me and tell me how cruel I am for not allowing her to have a smartphone, and called me 'awful' and insulted my gifts several times.

AIBU?

Ah another ageist comment.

You can just send a group text can’t you? Fair enough if you’d rather not be bothered but I think that says more about your commitment to the friendship than the necessity of a smartphone.

None of my elderly family have smartphones, we still manage to include them in things because we want to.

This. It's frightening to think grown ups not only think it's ok for a kid to have a brand new iPhone but are actively advocating for it.

The social media ban for up to 16 year olds cannot come in soon enough. Not just to stop children having access but also to educate so many naive parents in the damage access is doing to their children.

Yeah my 15 year old asked for a digital camera for her birthday that had to be on the same quality level of what I had in the 00s, and now she wants an MP3 player. She is all about the Y2k aesthetic right now She actually told me that her and her friends were talking about how their parents had so much cooler styles when they were teens than teens have now!

I don't understand why adults are so obsessed with giving children, including children that aren't theirs, smartphones. It's really fucking weird.

In my experience of teens there's a good chance that one of her friends has passed her their old one and she has one that is well hidden. Especially if she's saying things like most of her friends have one but not seeming bothered herself.

Are you trying to be insulting by calling me old and out of touch? I’m getting older for sure at 32 but I’m pretty confident that technology moves on and it’s fine to like the older stuff but I bit off to pretend it’s in some way better or not worth having anything more modern.

The idea of being 'left behind' is also weird. Left behind in what? The finer art of scrolling Instagram?

I think it's great she doesn't have or want one. Stick to your guns! You are really doing her a favour.

Or she can just make the decision not to give her child access to social media?

Can you see emails with a dumb phone? Else, do you write down your check-in information so you can use it to get your boarding pass printed at airport? Or does entering passport + personal details achieve the printout?

Do I undestand that OP reckons using Apps on smartphone = Zombie terrible but Apps on her desktop or laptop = hunkydory fine ?

I’m genuinely shocked by the amount of people saying give her a smartphone! Absolute fair play to you as a parent managing to avoid her having one for this long and for her to be content with what she has. That’s a testament to you as a parent. Also so thoughtful of you with the gifts, you have covered all bases. I have a young child and they will not be getting a smartphone until they are at least 16. End of. Hopefully social media for under 16s will be banned before then anyway so it will hopefully be less of an issue. Smart phones can cause so much harm to young people.

As for your sister her attitude and reaction is ridiculous. At least she ran it past you before hand so you could veto it. Yes it’s generous of her but it’s also not her place to decide when your DD gets a smartphone. Your kid your rules and you have absolutely nothing to feel bad for.

This thread is so sad. There's so much worry and fear in it - not from people being 'afraid' of technology, but from the posters who are so concerned about being left out and not cool and oh my goodness what if they don't have the very latest convenience and actually have to think for themselves! How will they cope??? How will try get a bus or endlessly screenshot where they are or talk to their friends without one??? It's just not possible! They won't be up to the minute informed about every going-on with their mates, or whether Stacey and Dave are together or oh no Dave fancies Gilly, oh no she's wearing the wrong mascara so its back to Stacey. It's absurd.

Yes, 14 year olds are very advanced and grown up these days - but to whose detriment? This obsession with pushing and encouraging children to be mini teenagers when they're 7 and classless adults when they're 14 is so, so sad.

I know that I am poorer time-wise and attention-wise in my own life from having one. And I'm an adult that is (largely) past the peer pressure stage. Claiming a smartphone is 'essential' is bonkers, and thinking kids with them are not mindlessly scrolling and able to access any content any where, any time is naive.

Says @Buttercream101 whom posted at 1am 😂😂

I think smart phones are good and having music camera etc on one device is easier then carrying all about

and good go her to learn how to be safe online with you having parental guidance control

but a new iPhone 🙀🙀🙀 costing nearly a grand

no need at all

start simple with a refurbished iPhone 10 so costing prob nearer £150

I think the iPhone here is irrelevant to a degree, you have chosen a path for your minor daughter and a close relative is trying to undermine that.
Your Sister doesn’t get to buy your child a gift that you have specifically said they are not to have, if she keeps throwing a hissy fit about then just ignore it.
Sometimes I inwardly raise an eyebrow/roll my eyes over some parenting techniques in my family, but I don’t say anything because I’m not the parent.
The only time I would undermine a parent or go against their wishes is if they were abusive or doing something bonkers, otherwise it’s a mindset of ‘not my circus, not my monkeys’.
I applaud your efforts really my teenage son spends vast amounts of time on his phone.
My younger child has a dumb phone at the moment as that’s all he needs but when he goes to secondary school this year he will need a smart phone. The bus ticket is an e-ticket for the term, and students track the bus so they know when to leave.
My older child’s school has a total ban on phones, they have to locked away in pouches.
The school the next one is going to use their smart phones for interactive lessons/research for pop quiz style sessions.
Do I think a 15 year old should have a smartphone? Possibly if she does want one but hasn’t mentioned it because she knows she won’t get one.
Do I think your Sister has a right to have a hissy fit because you won’t let her give her one as a present? Absolutely not.

Great post, and this thread shows that peer pressure never really stops.

And adults feeling threatened by a parent and child who deviates from this new norm around phones is crazy but a tale as old as time. Those without smartphones and social media are 'different' now and people still can't get past that. It's 'reading a physical book is performative' vibes.

Mumsnet is very anti phone but all the 14 years I know have smart phones, including iPhones. They use it to chat, the same way I used to stand in the hallway to chat, but aren’t hogging the phone line. They look at make up or food you tube tutorials, do their homework and take pictures. They get a lot of talks at school about staying safe online. I trust them to use it wisely.

It’s possible your DD does want an iPhone but is pretending that she doesn’t want something that she knows she’s not going to get. That way, she’s protecting her pride and self esteem.
Your gifts, to you, may seem thoughtful and generous but you sound quite controlling.
Step back a bit and leave your DD alone.
I knid of see your DSis point of view although she was a bit rude. I’d like to hear her POV.
Edited to add that I am sure you have the right intentions.

There is one boy in DS class (year 8) who does not have a smartphone because his parents are against it. His mum contacted me the other day to say that her son felt left out because the other boys were all talking and making plans on their WhatsApp friend group. She also wanted to ask about homework for the eleventh time- our sons got a shared hobby they do so she only knows me(there is a WhatsApp class group where these kind of things are dealt with). Sure she does have the right to refuse her son a smartphone but it's bloody annoying because I have to fill her in on stuff her son is supposed to deal with.

I have started to leave her messages unread because I'm fed up with it which is why she called me. I think it's weird to differentiate your child at this age. I do go through DS conversations every now and again to make sure it's all good (no bullying etc). So far so good after almost 2 years of smartphone.

Maybe your sister will buy her a car next, does she often do performative gifting?

My daughter is about to be 11 and really gets the difference also between owning your media and just streaming it, and the endless subscriptions for things, whether that's music or films or whatever. She's seen how a film can be available on Prime one day and then you have to pay extra on top of your sub to rent it the next. They're not daft.

Having said the above I wouldn't let DS have a new iPhone out of safety concerns about being mugged. He's got a Samsung and is happy with it.

So I’ll start with saying I think there is no issue whatsoever with kids not having a smartphone. That said having one does not equate to constant internet access. My kids have a tablet each and eldest has a smartphone. They can do a maximum of 2 hours of playing on games, chatting on what’s app or going on websites & only between 8am & 8pm. Outside that everything is locked bar the ability to call specific contacts just in case it was ever needed. They also have longer times they can use google classroom & other apps from school as well as standard messaging/calls.

On the whole I was leaning towards not getting them phones at all but eldest has ended up at a school that is quite a distance away and doesn’t have a big group of local kids to travel with. I’m more comfortable knowing she can contact me and that I can see where she is in case of any issues. I also accept fitting in with a new social group at a new school is tricky and sometimes being the same as the majority makes that easier. All that said if they’d been able to go through their planned school route with their local friends and both been at same school now I’d have waited at least a couple of years longer than Y7 for a phone at all. Their middle school is super close and they walk with lots of kids from the street and surrounding streets and could have walked together so I’d be much less worried they could ever get themselves lost or could fall or be upset by something and not have someone with them to help out.

you don’t say!

OP is hiding her lack of knowledge behind some philosophical point about parental controls. They are verbally very effective by the way if parents want them to be

Endless apps are fucking annoying in general though. Having a laptop and printer is vastly preferable to yet another app. I don't have any apps on my laptop.