School refusing 3 days off for DS AIBU

[BaronPencil]

I suspect I am going to get flamed for this but I genuinely do not know what the right call is.

DS is 14, 15 in the summer, and he hates school. Not in a mild way, he actively resents it. Says it is pointless, says most of the boys mess about anyway but he gets picked up more because he answers back. There is probably some truth in that but he absolutely does not help himself.

He is basically on his last warning behaviour wise. We have had meetings with head of year and deputy head. They have used phrases like final chance, serious concerns about attitude, risk of not being invited back next year if there is no improvement. So yes, thin ice is putting it mildly.

Behaviour issues include:

Constant low level disruption
Talking when teacher is talking
Refusing to move seats when asked
Eye rolling and muttering under his breath
Not handing homework in repeatedly
Detentions for not turning up to detentions
Once told a teacher “this is why no one takes this subject seriously”

There was also an incident last year where he made some stupid misogynistic comments in class about girls being “too emotional” for leadership which got him into a huge amount of trouble. He swears he was joking but it was not funny and I was absolutely furious with him. School took it very seriously. Since then they have him firmly labelled as a problem child I think.

He is not SEN. There is no diagnosis, no learning issue. He just does not like being told what to do and he is not a straight A academic star which I sometimes think is what this particular school really values above everything else. He is capable of good grades but only when he feels like it which is not often.

The only area where he has ever been consistently positive is drama.

He got into acting at 12 through the school drama club. Completely by accident really, a friend dragged him along. He got a part in the school production and something just switched. Teachers were emailing saying how focused he was in rehearsals, how supportive of other cast members. It was like reading about someone else.

We then enrolled him in a local theatre group and he loves it. Properly loves it. He will practise accents in his bedroom, watch performances online, ask for feedback. It is the only thing he puts real effort into without being nagged.

Now he has been cast in a proper local theatre production. Rehearsals are evenings and weekends so that has not interfered with school at all.

But the performances include three weekday matinees in the last week before Easter holidays. So he would miss three full days right before they break up.

His attendance is currently 95 percent. But he is absolutely on his last warning behaviour wise.

I emailed school explaining the opportunity and asking if the absence could be authorised given it is a legitimate production and not just a random day off. I did mention that drama is the only area where he truly excels and that this could be positive for him.

Reply was very clear. No authorised absence for external activities. Policy is policy. If we keep him off it will be recorded as unauthorised absence and may be considered alongside his existing behaviour record.

I did ask whether there was any discretion given it is the last week before holidays and most of the academic content is winding down (yes I know that sounds dismissive). They said learning continues until the final day and expectations apply to all pupils equally.

DS’s view is blunt. He says acting is the only thing he is actually good at and the only reason he bothers trying at anything. He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.

Part of me thinks he has not exactly earned special favours given his attitude. If anything he should be bending over backwards to show compliance right now not asking for time off. I can already hear people saying natural consequences and maybe that is fair.

But another part of me thinks if the one thing that genuinely motivates him is acting then why would we squash that, especially when school itself introduced him to it in the first place.

We pay a lot for this school because we wanted structure and high standards. I just did not anticipate feeling like the only area my son shines would be treated as irrelevant.

So AIBU to think they could show flexibility even though he is on his last warning and hardly model pupil of the year? Or is this exactly the kind of situation where the answer has to be no because of his behaviour record.

Pulling out of a production could have negative impact on future opportunities through as they would likely see him as unreliable and not cast home again

I also think he may be autistic. Struggling with friendship groups, special interest. Struggling with higherarchy

Musical theatre there are many autistic people drawn to this area. The masking they do in life they hone this skill in the early years and this is what enables them to become different characters so well. They literally step into the character and become them.

My child also struggled from primary but excels in theatre. We home ed as they couldn't cope with school at all. They are autistic and they were observed in school once. They hated school everyday but the day they were observed was a dress up day and they went as a character that loved school and was academic. All day they played that character and the observer saw this and the report said happiest in lessons

We were shocked until we remembered it was dress up day.

Contrary to PPs, I've seen the concern in the professional theatre, to ensure a child is not missing out on education. If the LA won't give him a licence then the producers will have to cope, or offer alternative tuition, so as to reassure the LA that the boy's education won't be interrupted. Really, the OP & her DH should have checked dates before even taking their DS to the audition.

But the larger point is, I've taught enough rude entitled boys (a few years older - university age) who think because they're male, roles and leadership will just fall into their laps. Not so. The OP would do well to educate herself about the profession and the way young people need to behave in order to thrive- they need to knuckle down. If he wants to act, English and History will be central to helping him understand the roles & scripts he aspires to perform, for example.

I only realised from your update that this is not amdram but a professional company. I think this does change things from the point of view of the school being actually obstructive if they disallow this. They could be seeing it as a useful experiment for if he does improve next term based on this being allowed. It sounds like a school that doesn't value performing arts. I wonder if he was being invited on a rugby tour for instance if their attitude to him missing school would change, even though they are unhappy with him.

He sounds quite miserable at school and it is sad that he does not have friends there. Often the rebellious ones are still popular so it's something more going on.

I hope you can get him the days off, into a suitable sixth form (which doesn't sound like where he is) and get your DH to open his mind to a DS who has different interests and emotional temperament to him. There's many HE and schools with sixth forms who are proud of their pupils who go onto achieve in performing arts, are there none of those accessible to you?

Isn’t the main issue here that your son seems to think he can pick and choose what
he does and who he’s polite to based on his interests? That he lacks respect for teachers and his peers?

I’m sorry but you seem to be focusing purely on his love for acting, versus his poor behaviour when things don’t go his way.

Are you and husband respectful to people? Where has this rudeness and entitlement come from?

At this stage, I think it’s too late to get your son back on the right path so you may as well allow the acting and hope he’s not chucked out for it. His behaviour isn’t going to improve anytime soon clearly,

But the real impact would have been holding him account of his behaviour years ago, enforcing manners and coming down hard when the school feedback that his behaviour was poor. Instead it sounds like he’s been allowed to tick along and get to the stage where he’s blackmailing you all into allowing him to do the acting. It should never have gotten to this stage.

@BaronPencil Your son obviously has natural acting ability if he auditioned and was cast in this role. He needs to honour a professional commitment whether his school agree or not, even if he is asked to leave for taking the time off. I think it’s absolutely vital to give children every opportunity to shine, especially if they have a particular talent.

You need to talk to your husband about dealing with having a son who has such different interests and priorities to him. Personally I think your son sounds quite clear about who he is and why he hates school (because he’s in an education setting that isn’t meeting his needs and is completely wrong for him). I’d be so proud to have a child who managed to get a professional acting role at 15!

What a difficult situation. Are you being unreasonable to expect the school to offer flexibility, when you specifically chose it because you wanted "structure and high standards"? Yes, I think you are. Even if there was a possibility of offering flexibility for external events, I don't think many schools would jump to offer it to pupils who had been persistantly disruptive in class.

That being said, that school does not sound like a good match for him. I would let him take 3 days off for the drama production and let the chips fall where they may. I do recognise the sense in what some other posters have highlighted - that his behaviour in school doesn't bode well for the inevitable bump in the road that will come with drama at some point. BUT, it may just be the making of him. It's awful to feel like the only square peg others repeatedly try to jam into the round hole. Get enough knockbacks and you end up not giving a shit about anything. His behaviour may turn around if he's in an environment better suited to him, his interests and the way he learns.

I really take exception to this in this thread. He doesnt like school, because school isnt set up for his needs, it doesnt mean he has a condition to explain that. It means that he is one of many children that our system is not set up for, not becuase he is ND but simply because it doesnt suit all kids.

There are often flags in some peoples posts about ND and I'll be the first to point it out normally but I dont think it applies here.

If the school system didnt exist, this wouldnt even be an issue for him.

For gods sake @BaronPencil he hates the school and he isn’t treated as an individual in his own right

your DH needs to wake up to the fact his son isn’t a clone of him and treating him as such is damaging his future

i actually think is is simpler it doesn’t suit his needs because his individual needs have never been looked at he has simply been boxed as the same as his siblings and father and made to get on with it

rather than choosing the right school for him. I have 2 teenagers one has gone to one high school and a sixth form neither of which woild
suit my other whose school the eldest would have hated

He's at an independent school though so he wont be popular because they may well have a different view of the importance of the school, he doesnt so unlike a normal state school where as you say sometimes the rebels are charismatic and popular, that might not apply here

The licensing process exists in part to enable adequate scrutiny of the impact on a child's education. The OP has said that her DS has 3 matinees scheduled during school hours. Assuming her DS attends school in the morning (which he should) before going off to perform, he would miss at most 3 afternoons of school. This is well within he scope of what is considered reasonable. For context, children working in Matilda in the West End miss several afternoons of school a week during the 2-month rehearsal period and then one afternoon of school every 3 weeks for a weekday matinee for the 6 months of their contract.

A professional production isn't going to provide tutoring for 3 afternoons, nor would the LEA expect them to. It's also perfectly reasonable for the OP's DS to have auditioned for a production where he would miss this small amount of school. If parents weren't supposed to take their kids to auditions for professional roles which would involve any period of absence from school, that would rule out the majority of auditions for young performers. A lot of the time, the auditions themselves are scheduled within school hours!

Sounds like the school is not a good match for him. I would certainly be withdrawing him from it. I would definitely send him on the theatre production! He has a talent for acting and that should be supported.

I know it’s the family private school that his dad and older brother went to, but so what. It’s not a school capable of engaging him in learning. He needs a school that has a teaching style that matches his learning style.

Some of us with ND children do see flags for neurodiversity in the OP's description of her DS. That doesn't mean that he is ND, but I'm not sure why you take such exception to even raising it as a possibility. Better to consider it and rule it out, than dismiss the possibility out of hand and miss something that might be an important contributory factor to a young person's difficulties.

I feel for your son. Sorry OP, haven’t RTWT but read your updates. I have two older sons who went through stages of school refusal. Could he be masking mental health issues?

He obviously just hates schools and the routine of it all so hes acting out i would absolutely allow him to stay off those days he most likely needs the outlet that drama gives him good for his mental health i would say as well and no point aggravating his mood any further.

FWIW, my opinion is you should let him do the full production. Not doing could have long term affects. I don't see it as rewarding bad behaviour, you'd be actually rewarding the good behaviour he displays towards the thing he's good at. And if he does well, continues to act and enjoy it, in the grand scheme of things, what would denying him this chance achieve? How many actors - good ones - have degrees or went to private school?? This is obviously his 'thing' and should be nurtured. It could be the making of him. Your DH needs to realise he won't be a failure if his Son has to go to a State school, lots of successful people don't. He needs to realise what's best for your DS, not his own ego.

I’ve not rtft but in case it’s not been mentioned with the timings mentioned, this may be out of your control, i undestand that the organisers will need to have applied for a licence (either BOPA or full licence) by now (21 days before performance) and Head sign off will be needed.

Er... it's the other way around! The school needs to be ok with the absence before the LA will grant the license. The LA could override the school, but is unlikely to, for a Y10 child.

Unauthorised leave it is then. Just don’t send him those days, you asked they refused. End of.

dosnt mean you have to send him in, they don’t control your life’s, the theatre production is obviously where his heart lies and who knows what other opportunities this could bring him.

take it as unauthorised leave and congratulations to your son on getting the part!

As has been pointed out many times, it's not up to the OP whether he does the performance. Part of the licensing requirement for underage performers involves seeking permission from the school for absence, If the school refuses it, the LA is likely to withhold the license.

No! He can't perform without a license. The LA will ask his school whether they consent before they grant the license. If the school says no, he's in a pickle.
LA can override but prob won't.
I don't know why this is hard to understand.

Obviously it's a risk if you go ahead with the unauthorised absence but in your position I would be of a mind to go that route PROVIDED my DS sits down and hears loud and clear that his behaviour is jeopardising his chance of making a real go of the drama by forcing the school to take a hard line. He needs to grow up and realise, if he wants those opportunities for future productions during school time, then he needs to change. If he gets it, I suggest you and he go in to the school and explain how much Drama means to him and that he understands what he needs to do to have those privileges.
If drama really is his love, then I would encourage his interest and perhaps his attitude to school by researching what's needed for him to go to drama school. He may then see a little more purpose in applying himself here and now.

@MrMidshipmanHornblower its not hard to understand at all, it’s just the “your bubz your rulez” posters dont seem to get that “I want doesn’t get”!

School secretary here, we allow that, I think the code is P sporting activity, we have had children in theatre groups take a leave of absence for panto rehearsals. Keep the school informed from a safeguarding perspective so they know his whereabouts, but you will lot need to worry, they too have bigger issues than your 3 days for a theatre group. You could chat to your son about the support you are giving him and ask him to support you in return with a refocus on his behaviour, you’re in this together sort of stance- you have bigger fish to fry and it sounds good for his mental well being. Take it on the chin but have everything reasonably and politely documented in an email. 95 % is good attendance and the 3 days will be diluted as the year moves on to July.