School refusing 3 days off for DS AIBU

[BaronPencil]

I suspect I am going to get flamed for this but I genuinely do not know what the right call is.

DS is 14, 15 in the summer, and he hates school. Not in a mild way, he actively resents it. Says it is pointless, says most of the boys mess about anyway but he gets picked up more because he answers back. There is probably some truth in that but he absolutely does not help himself.

He is basically on his last warning behaviour wise. We have had meetings with head of year and deputy head. They have used phrases like final chance, serious concerns about attitude, risk of not being invited back next year if there is no improvement. So yes, thin ice is putting it mildly.

Behaviour issues include:

Constant low level disruption
Talking when teacher is talking
Refusing to move seats when asked
Eye rolling and muttering under his breath
Not handing homework in repeatedly
Detentions for not turning up to detentions
Once told a teacher “this is why no one takes this subject seriously”

There was also an incident last year where he made some stupid misogynistic comments in class about girls being “too emotional” for leadership which got him into a huge amount of trouble. He swears he was joking but it was not funny and I was absolutely furious with him. School took it very seriously. Since then they have him firmly labelled as a problem child I think.

He is not SEN. There is no diagnosis, no learning issue. He just does not like being told what to do and he is not a straight A academic star which I sometimes think is what this particular school really values above everything else. He is capable of good grades but only when he feels like it which is not often.

The only area where he has ever been consistently positive is drama.

He got into acting at 12 through the school drama club. Completely by accident really, a friend dragged him along. He got a part in the school production and something just switched. Teachers were emailing saying how focused he was in rehearsals, how supportive of other cast members. It was like reading about someone else.

We then enrolled him in a local theatre group and he loves it. Properly loves it. He will practise accents in his bedroom, watch performances online, ask for feedback. It is the only thing he puts real effort into without being nagged.

Now he has been cast in a proper local theatre production. Rehearsals are evenings and weekends so that has not interfered with school at all.

But the performances include three weekday matinees in the last week before Easter holidays. So he would miss three full days right before they break up.

His attendance is currently 95 percent. But he is absolutely on his last warning behaviour wise.

I emailed school explaining the opportunity and asking if the absence could be authorised given it is a legitimate production and not just a random day off. I did mention that drama is the only area where he truly excels and that this could be positive for him.

Reply was very clear. No authorised absence for external activities. Policy is policy. If we keep him off it will be recorded as unauthorised absence and may be considered alongside his existing behaviour record.

I did ask whether there was any discretion given it is the last week before holidays and most of the academic content is winding down (yes I know that sounds dismissive). They said learning continues until the final day and expectations apply to all pupils equally.

DS’s view is blunt. He says acting is the only thing he is actually good at and the only reason he bothers trying at anything. He says if we make him miss it we are proving that school matters more to us than he does. He also says school already think he is a lost cause so what difference will three days make.

Part of me thinks he has not exactly earned special favours given his attitude. If anything he should be bending over backwards to show compliance right now not asking for time off. I can already hear people saying natural consequences and maybe that is fair.

But another part of me thinks if the one thing that genuinely motivates him is acting then why would we squash that, especially when school itself introduced him to it in the first place.

We pay a lot for this school because we wanted structure and high standards. I just did not anticipate feeling like the only area my son shines would be treated as irrelevant.

So AIBU to think they could show flexibility even though he is on his last warning and hardly model pupil of the year? Or is this exactly the kind of situation where the answer has to be no because of his behaviour record.

Ah, I see. He’s got the upper hand over you!

If you try to punish him (in his eyes, you behave badly) he doesn’t reward you. He ignores you and continues doing his thing. It’s only if you ‘behave well’ (and give him what he wants) that he responds positively.

You've got yourself in a right little pickle there, and it’s going to be painful to get yourself out of it.

I think he would be happy at a state school or anywhere that isn't his current school as long as he could do drama. He picked 2 other options for GCSE but he really isn't fussed about them tbh. He has no friends in school which I'm sure isn't helping his behaviour because in his mind no one wants to hang around with him anyway due to his behaviour so there's no point improving because it's unlikely to get those friends back

I do spend time with him, I'm the one taking him to rehearsals, I watch musicals etc with him. I try and check he's done his homework and he lies and says yes but refuses to show me as it's been submitted online. He lies that he hasn't got detention and then skips it and gets into more trouble. When he speaks to his head of year he says it's always in a mature way and he obviously bright but he doesn't show it in other lessons or to other teachers

Re emotions, he doesn't really show them, when he cried over missing the theatre group one time DH told him to stop crying because there's worse things happening than missing something once and was quite fed up with him although he was unwell (we both were) so he probably had less patience for him

He's clearly not thriving in that school, so you're wasting your money. Not to mention all the other parents who are forking out money for disrupted lessons, frazzled teachers and poor behaviour. Nobody's winning at the moment.

I'd put him in the play, probably with threats/incentives like any more detentions or late homeworks and you'll rethink. And mean it: this young man should not feel like he's running the show.

It sounds like maybe he would be a candidate for a good quality online school combined with lots of intensive drama. You'll probably have a happier, more motivated child and save money.

The more you write the more your DH looks like a problem.
have you considered family therapy - focused on your DH

I don't mean to be rude @BaronPencil but your husband sounds awful towards your DS. I feel for your DS. I'm just glad he has you.

I recently attended a training programme in Restorative Practice- and one of the central tenets is 'Connect before you correct'. If you want your son to listen to you, let him do something he is good at and which could give him much needed confidence and skills. Then you might be able to have some influence with him in respect of his behaviour.
Otherwise Im concerned he is having no positive feedback in any aspects of his life

Part of the problem here @BaronPencil is that both you and he are seeing this professional production as the one and only opportunity, and that if he can't do this, it is a catastrophe.

Now, a teen may think this, especially a troubled & bratty dysfunctional & over-emotional teen, as your DS is. But YOU need to be the voice of reason here. It won't be his only opportunity and it is a lesson for him in learning about responsibility in al areas of his life, not just the one where he gets his strokes.

But as PPs have said, your DH is also part of the bigger problem - you overindulge your DS, your DH bullies him. No wonder your DS despises women unless they're bending to his will.

OP, I think your son would highly benefit from being taken out of school and be enrolled into a private performing arts school. He can always re-take GCSE later privately or re-enrol or skip them.
He could then move either to an apprenticeship.
otherwise homeschooling with tutors alongside performance arts? - still cheaper than a private school.

it sounds like your son needs a break.

If theatre is his motivation:

Maths is useful as if you want to be an actor you're likely to be self employed and will need to look after your finances, understand invoicing etc. If you want to work in theatre there are lots of other jobs in different departments that also require keeping and understanding budgets etc.

English is hugely relevant and useful for acting, writing, directing. It's about understanding text, intention, subtext, language etc. As well as introducing a wide variety of characters and characterisation.

and so on!

Also, careers in the arts, especially in creative roles and performance, are often portfolio careers and the more strings to his bow, the better. I know dancers who have studied physiotherapy on the side so when/if they're injured/retired they've got another route.

How is he with music? Singing lessons? Being an actor-musician has opened doors for some friends I know. Being bilingual and studying a language has got others jobs. Having other skills like horse riding or a marshal art has opened doors for others.

Are there many practical GCSE options? Product design? He could focus project work on set design, prop making.

Unfortunately, the way the acting industry works, if you pass on one opportunity there are absolutely no guarantees of getting another one in future, There are far more talented actors auditioning than there are roles available, even for teens.

Once an actor books one professional role, they are much more likely to be offered more roles in future. Having a credits on the CV will almost always count more than talent - that's just the way the industry is.

So for the OP's son, there really is more at stake here than being able to take part in this one production. If he wants to be an actor, having a professional credit will open doors to more work and to agency representation.

Yeah the more I read the more I think your H’s views on education and what is of value are part of the problem here. He should have been in a more rounded school for a long time now.

Make sure he does the performance. Let the school do their worst. If he needs to change schools it will be a pain, but undoubtedly good for his mental health and, I strongly suspect, his behaviour and attitude will improve.

The problem is, if he's rude, disrespectful and not engaging with learning, another school might not want him. Even a performing arts school has to teach maths and English.

You seem to be making excuses for your son. It’s like he’s unhappy because he gets a backlash from his own actions that you then support the notion of unforgiving peers and tyrannical teachers who have already pegged him as a problem child, yet you stated previously he managed the grand total of 2 days not being a dick. When he says what’s the point because of me blah blah blah, tell him it’s not about him. It’s about the affect he has on others. The school not granting him leave is a perfect example of how people won’t bend over backwards to help someone who makes their life harder. In truth they’d rather suffer his presence to stop him getting rewarded. So whilst he says these kids won’t be his mate regardless, they may not or they may thaw to him if he calms his attitude, they’ll go from full on resentment to cool indifference, to then maybe having a cordial chat about something. As for your husband saying stop crying. Well what should he say, sit there comforting him when the very reason for missing out is his own behaviour. I would say the same. I’d literally be like. Stop crying around me. If you can’t respect the boundaries I set in place don’t think guilt tripping me will work. It would piss me off if after repeated warnings I followed through on a threat to then have to hear them crying and being woe is me I’d say shut up to. He gave the big un so act like it now. You allow him to use shitty excuses & you’re reaping it.

my son was rewarded with a lunchtime treat at school. He was meant to redeem today and he was excited. Yesterday he was rude to a teacher who the proceeded to give him a lunchtime detention today. He came home quite upset as he’s now missing out. I asked did the school know about the clash. He said yes & after discussing what had exactly happened he drops out the teacher had given him the chance to apologise & he didn’t take it. I looked at him and said why you telling me this. He wanted me to email the school and sort it out. I’m not doing that. You deserve it because you were 1 rude and 2 to stupid to take your out. I advised he seek out this teacher first thing and apologise and hope for the best. Well I don’t know if he did but I got an alert to say he attended his detention.

But he's not learning compromise or negotiation in any real way in this situation. The op is giving into emotional blackmail and supporting shite behaviour if she lets him do it. His behaviour will not wash in the real world.

One thing that struck me from one of your first posts was that you said something along the lines of (re primary) 'he didn't like school and would rather have been at home, but that's just normal for kids'.

I'm not sure it is?

I mean of course they all have their moments and definitely not ALL of the time, but generally - and I am no expert - aren't kids generally happy to be with their friends? I mention it just because it sounds like his 'issues' go back a long, long way. It sounds like perhaps there is unhappiness there that a therapist might help with.

(Not that it helps in the short term and of course is no excuse for bad behaviour, etc).

It sounds as though his Dad is bullying him: he’s not accepting your son for who he is at core (interests, not the behaviour - the behaviour is clearly a response to something, perhaps the pressure his Dad puts on him etc). Is it your husband who has insisted on going to and continuing with this school?

I don’t like the sound of your husband. This “be a man” rubbish is just the flip side of misogyny.

I have worked in the theatre, and part of my job has involved training young performers - I know the odds. But it is always a gamble, and the catastrophising about this role being the only opportunity he'll ever have and more important than anything else is just not accurate. Or productive. If the OP's DS goes on to have any kind of professional career, there will be many more opportunities and auditions, and not all of them will come off.

He won't see that, of course, but it's important that the adults around him are more level-headed and realistic. He'll need to have that behaviour modelled to hm, if he has any hope of a professional career (and no, not all boys do have professional careers, even if it looks like there's a "scarcity" of boys/men in the industry a) there's not; and b) fewer roles are written for women/girls so it looks like there are more of them.

He's got lots of time to audition, and he's got lots of learning to do. Too much too soon can actually damage a young artist (Look at Emma Watson, FFS she has appalling vocal habits).

A fee-paying arts school (Tring has traditionally been more dance than acting though) would be a good call. Most state schools are so strapped for cash they're limited in what they can offer in the creative arts, even at GCSE.

No - he's learning that his dad is a snob who cares more about the appearance of going to the right school, or his son having a games room that he didn't want and that his school only cares about academic achievements

The poor kid can't win - if he behaves and does well in lessons, despite being deeply unhappy, it sounds like he will get an 'I told you so' from his dad who won't want him to go onto drama school or will keep trying to force sports, computer games and pool on him.

He needs to be in a school which meets his needs and allows him to thrive and he needs to be allowed to make the most of the opportunities that are clearly a good fit for him.

He works hard at the drama side of things and has excellent feedback from his school drama teacher and theatre school lead and he is clearly talented as he got a part in a professional production but no-one recognises that - not his school and not his parents. If no-one recognises what he is doing well, then I am not surprised that he thinks he may as well not bother!

I really feel for him and hope that he gets to do his production.

I also hope that @BaronPencil is able to advocate for her son and get him into a setting where he will thrive.

@BaronPencil - Brit School / London isn't the only option - there are plenty of drama schools around the country. Which region are you in? People may be able to suggest places.

It is always a gamble, but a big part of that gamble is whether an actor will ever be offered a professional role. The OP's son has been offered one now. A professional credit is likely to open doors to more jobs in future and to agency representation. It is just as much of a gamble to say "Oh well, another job will come along later." It might not. Ever. That's not catastrophising, that is the reality for a lot of young actors (I know plenty via my own DS).

If the OP's DS was happy at school, thriving and achieving his academic potential, I would absolutely agree that he can afford to wait, mature, keep training, and see if more professional roles come along in future. But he's not. It sounds like he's utterly miserable (and acting out), and performing is the only thing that brings him any pleasure or sense of achievement and self-worth. The role he's been offered is a window of opportunity to spend more time in an environment where he feels valued and isn't constantly under the microscope for poor behaviour. If that window is missed, the same opportunity may not come again.

I agree that he sounds better suited to a vocational performing arts school.

@BaronPencil apologies, I have not RTFT but have read all your posts. I'm prepared to be jumped on here by those who think it's used as an excuse or being overdiagnosed; but as someone who received an adult ADHD diagnosis, and parent to an ADHD child, there is so much about your son's behaviour that would make me at least want to investigate it. This screening questionnaire is pretty widely used https://adhduk.co.uk/adult-adhd-screening-survey (it's section A that's most important for diagnosis: answering "often" or "very often" to at least 4 questions suggests ADHD should be further investigated). And again, apologies if this is something you've already investigated and ruled out - there are just so many flags in your post that to me suggest ADHD.

Whether an assessment is right for him or not, that doesn't answer your more immediate question of what to do about the production this summer: personally, my parenting style seems to be more hardline than most other parents I know IRL and I am zero tolerance approach with certain behaviours but if my son was struggling as much as yours clearly is and had found an activity he excelled at and loved doing, I'd want to do everything in my power to make sure he had the opportunities to realise his potential in it and I would be considering whether that was more important to his future success, self-belief and happiness than mainstream schooling. People are posting saying he can clearly control his objectionable behaviour because he doesn't exhibit it at theatre group don't seem to have considered that being at theatre group could be what gives him the resources to rein it in.

All the best to your family and I truly hope you find a way to help your son thrive.

It's not about this being the only opportunity though - it's not like he is being told he can't audition.

He has auditioned, has been cast and given that the show is in three weeks, will be well into rehearsals and getting close to tech / costume fitting etc. There is a good chance that programmes have already been printed and promotional posters made.

If he pulls out now, it's going to cause the company a major headache

If you've worked in theatre you know how small that world is - pulling out of your first professional commitment three weeks before curtain up is definitely something that can follow you and prevent you getting roles in the future!

Oh god put him in the play for the sake of the others kids in that class. Can you imagine how he's going to behave on those three days if he went to school? Pull him from the school and find a performing arts one.

Having seen more of what you have said about your DS I don't think you should exclude possible SEND needs, especially with him being born premie. He has an intense special interest, is very rigid about not seeing the point of other subjects that he isn't interested in and has struggled with managing socially and emotionally in the school environment. If he is low support needs academically he could have flown under the radar completely. I say this as someone who has autistic children, multiple family members with ND and worked with lots of kids with SEND/SEMH needs. All behaviour is communication and his is shouting his unhappiness loud and clear.

I would think about taking him to a private clinical psychologist who has experience in ASD/ADHD assessment (HCPC registered), but who also works with children/teens with emotional/behavioural issues and offers family therapy.

https://neurodivergentinsights.com/adhd-vs-autism/

There sounds like there many issues going on and I don’t think your DS will reach his potential unless something changes. It doesn’t sound like he has a good connection with the rest of the family and no friends at school either so he has no one to confide in. Your DH sounds like he’s very fixated on appearances and only wants to connect if DS fits into what he wants. This is only going to push DS further away.

The school is clearly not working and even if he still has to do core subjects at a performing arts school he still might be more motivated as he’ll see you’re taking his interests seriously and he’ll be with other performing arts students who he might fit in better with.

I would also reconsider a ND assessment- premature, fixation on one thing, social issues, lack of ability to express emotions, initial developmental delays - there’s definitely potential indicators.