To think this is utterly disgusting?!?

[LucyWestenra]

What is wrong with people??

Talk about adding insult to injury!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602697/amp/Green-Party-spin-doctor-denies-women-raped-October-7-attacks.html

That is such a flippant comment. How can you know what genocide looks like? It’s a really specific term and not something to just be thrown around willy-nilly.

From what’s been said on this thread, it’s unclear as to whether Israel have committed genocide. Just because you think it’s the case, that doesn’t make it so.

Ok, so we can agree that Hamas raped and murdered Israeli women in Oct 7th. I have no problem at all with agreeing with you on that.

Can you agree with me that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza?

Israel is a nuclear power and Gaza is tiny. If Israel wanted to commit genocide it would have been done within the space of a few days. If this genocide is occurring why on earth would it be continuing years later?

I’m not the one saying that Israel has committed genocide. The UN commission are the ones saying it.

why are you finding it so hard to accept?

Yes.

Just this.

I apologise if my terminology was ‘childish’ but I honestly started this thread in good faith.

Because after all the Jewish community have been through, they don’t deserve to put up with such ignorance.

💐

Agreed.

And you know what? If the choice is between Israel and Hamas or Israel and Iran I would always choose Israel.

I wish people wouldn’t pretend they’re remotely the same.

Try being homosexual in Israel vs Palestine/ Iran.

Women like the Green Party.

In the university town i live in each city council ward elects 3 councillors and my ward has elected three apparently nice women from the Green Party for as long as i can remember. (Not the same three women each time)

I assume they are committed environmentalists and don't necessarily accept all the other crap the party now is associated with.

But maybe they do. It is a bit of a lefty "progressive" city

BBC:

The commission said its latest report was "the strongest and most authoritative UN finding to date" on the war. However, it does not officially speak for the UN.

The UN says it cannot make a legal determination as to whether a situation constitutes genocide under international law. It says a situation is referred to as genocide only after a competent national or international court has declared it as such.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is currently hearing a case brought by South Africa that accuses Israeli forces of genocide, but it could take years to reach a conclusion. Israel has called the case "wholly unfounded" and based on "biased and false claims".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8641wv0n4go

Don't let people drive you away.

Threads often get hijacked by people and veer off.

The comments made by the Green Party Spin Person are disgusting. Rape deniers are disgusting.

Im sorry you are going through a difficult time at present. I hope things improve.

didn't the Greens have a policy at the last election that they were going to increase income tax for anybody earning over £50k?

£50k is still quite a lot of money but it was sufficiently low for it to be a real vote loser

I’m a woman. I joined the Green Party once years ago, when they were environmentalists. It’s true that some women still stick with them. The councillors near me - I wonder if it’s the same town? - openly agree if you say that you’ll vote for local councillors with a proven long term historical interest in ecology and environmental matters, but that the national leadership now is barshit crazy.

I have got to the point now where I won’t even vote for those locals any more. If I can be bothered to go out and vote any more, I didn’t last time, it would be for a local independent or Monster Raving Loonies. Because that’s all politics has become.

Please tell me you’re not serious.

So it’s not a genocide because it could be worse. And because it’s not worse that proves it’s not genocide?

That’s some seriously faulty logic you have there.

It's likely they haven't given it a second's thought.

A huge problem in itself. When will these women wake up?

Thank you for your kind words ❤️
I won’t go because I haven’t done anything wrong.

Genocide is defined as the intentional, systematic destruction—in whole or in part—of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. That hasn't happened. What has happened is defense and retaliation against the most brutal and deadliest terrorist attack in Israel's history.

What I'm illustrating to you is that, if genocide were the goal, it would not be continuing to this day.

Putting aside the fact they started this war by murdering and kidnapping thousands of innocent people, Hamas never even surrendered and was the one rejecting peace deals...that is not the behaviour of an area undergoing genocide.

But it's a really obvious and transparent tactic to attack and then run away crying genocide when the target retaliates. I love asking people like you what Israel SHOULD do to defend themselves. What WOULD be deemed acceptable. There is never any response...

So Hamas started this did they?

I suggest you read some history. Start I. 1947 and work forward from there..

This in spades.

This isn’t a negotiations exercise where users give you ground on some issues and you give them ground on others. It’s about dealing in clear facts.

With that said, I don’t know if you saw my post above that said genocide is an extremely specific term that needs to be used with due seriousness. I haven’t seen a clear case that Israel has committed genocide, so I cannot agree with you. I don’t know about others, but that is my position for now. I might change my mind in the future, but for now, I cannot say Israel has committed genocide.

I’d be very interested - genuinely - to hear what makes you so certain that Israel has committed genocide. Is it just because of the UN’s conclusion or from seeing other evidence too?

Don't be so bloody patronising. Israel left Gaza in 2005. It has been 'ruled' by Hamas since they won an election in January 2006. No elections since so not exactly a democratic rule,. The Gaza war began with Hamas' atrocities on 7 October 2023, after years of rocket attacks as well as other terrorist activities upon Israel.

It isn't even the UNs conclusion. As I stated earlier:

The UN themselves say it cannot make a legal determination as to whether a situation constitutes genocide under international law. It says a situation is referred to as genocide only after a competent national or international court has declared it as such.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is currently hearing a case brought by South Africa that accuses Israeli forces of genocide, but it could take years to reach a conclusion.

Why can’t people stay away from this thread if all they have to offer is whataboutery or worse 😭

This was started in good faith

Shame on you who seek to derail it

Because it’s about Jewish women

At least own your bigotry

Ffs

As recently as 1947?

Isn't that bit like turning up at the theatre after the intermission has ended?

You'll only understand half of what's going on.

No, this started in 1917 when Balfour signed an agreement which was vague and unclear and went against the agreement already made with Arabs in the area known as Palestine. Check your history books. The conflict has been going on ever since, with land gradually being taken over by force.

Israel didn't leave Gaza in 2005. Israel has not left the West Bank either.

A fair and equal two state solution with each side in control of their own security and pressured by the international community to stick to agreements is the only way forward.