To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

I have read tons of absolute awful posts - but this one made me lose my breath, OP - make sure you get that money for that poor child - and best of luck to you - thank goodness you have stepped in.

First of all I'm sorry for your loss and hope the little one is settling in with you. I would send a letter asking for the money to be returned. If she doesn't I'd let everyone know exactly what she's done. I'm rarely shocked these days but this is an absolutely disgusting thing to do. I definitely wouldn't be keen on keeping contact with her.

Re the legal aspect - it has been checked, questioned, rechecked and checked again.

By numerous professionals and specialists.

i appreciate where people are coming from with the legal side, but the executors and trustees of the rest of the funds have taken specialist advice (and had it double checked) and there is no question over the legality.

My cousin was also warned about this very possibility.

my question is just me gauging how others would react because the only recourse is her morals and I think perhaps if more people are going to share my opinion that may help (as in her friends, family, acquaintances may help if she feels judged enough).

It does sound like nobody has explicitly requested the money. Until this has happened, I think you need to give a certain benefit of doubt.

What do you mean you’d interview people? On what authority? Who in their right mind would agree to be “interviewed” be a solicitor?!

In your shoes, I think I’d initially clearly and politely ask for the money to be returned to the child. If that wasn’t forthcoming, I would go nuclear and publicly shame the immoral cousin (a “true life” story in a rag like the Daily Mail for example)

This

And it's exactly what needs to be said to her by her family members

I think you’ve misunderstood. It would be absolutely standard to interview people like OP and her family members who may have discussed this with the deceased and wished make a statement to that effect. No authority required to interview someone who wants to talk to you. All completely normal and part of the ordinary fact-finding process.

OP is confident that this avenue has been fully explored so there it is.

Has anyone actually said to the cousin “that money was put into the account to help with the cost of raising your late cousins child, you’re not raising the child so why are you keeping the money?”
Anyone know what her plans are, keep it, give it to the child?
The very least she should do is put the money in an account for the child

Sorry to keep banging this drum. Was the question of a constructive trust and rights in equity raised? Did you speak to a specialist in contentious probate matters specifically? - This isn't a question for a general probate practitioner.

Otherwise agree with everyone else that your cousin is morally bankrupt.

The intent was for the care of the child, and nothing else. I can’t believe the other cousin has kept the money. How does her conscience allow this?

so- “I’d be interviewing anyone who’d discussed this with the deceased.” Actually means “I’d take witness statements from anyone who offered to do one” ?? Not quite as officious as you made it sound!

People’s reading comprehension is terrible. It was very clear who everyone was and what happened from the original post but so many are asking really daft questions or making wildly wrong assumptions.

This is horrendous! Surely the cousin knew that the agreement for them getting that money was because they were going to be caring for the child?
The money should go to the child’s guardian to be used for the child.

The fact this person hasn’t instantly offered to transfer this money across is frankly disgusting. I feel so sorry for the deceased relative who gave this money to the person in good faith that it would be there for their child.

She has kept the money that was meant to go to a young child who has just lost their mommy.

If this person had any kind of conscience, they would give you the money to put in trust for that child. Anything else is theft. It may, technically be legal, but to not use the money for it's intended purpose and to keep it for themselves is theft. To not hand the money back is morally reprehensible.

Let's hope that there has been some misunderstanding (I'm struggling to think of one) and that they hand the money over.

Failure to do so makes them the biggest thieving scumbag on the planet.

Yes, ask for the money back.

100% make a formal request for the money. I’d word it as that you assume that she was just waiting for the account details to transfer it, here they are, thanks a lot.

Legally I’d also argue some kind of constructive trust- and remember not all lawyers are equal. If you’ve not had a specialist trusts barrister look at the case you might consider that?

And even if you might not win, if she doesn’t transfer voluntarily it might be worth a stiff letter from a solicitor setting out that if she does not do so you will be “considering all options including an application to court” etc.

This is what I'd send. A message making it clear you expect that money to be transferred to the child.

It's the ultimate betrayal. The lady who was dying just wanted to be sure her baby was to be looked after. It's heartbreaking that the poor baby has lost their mommy, their whole life turned upside down, then this person betrays a dying woman and goes against her wishes like this. I agree with you, the first thing they should have done was hand this money over.

That poor woman, she thought everything was in place for her child and then the other cousin pulled the rug at the last minute, I actually think that is crueler than keeping the money (which frankly is despicable).
Although legally there isn't much you can do about the money, every single person from your side of the family should be asking her if she intends to do the decent thing and return it.

I think the meaning was clear. Enjoy your evening.

OP, I agree with @istolethetalisker . Maybe there are details that aren’t covered in the thread that make the difference. But if it’s just that someone asked the probate practitioner “is X now the legal owner?” then they might have said yes, but that’s not quite the right question and not the right person to ask. It’s also not a question for the bank.

This is situation is going to get to the point where the legal costs make the benefit of 25k less and less worthwhile surely? It’s already been reviewed at a cost at least twice

Wow, well surely, if nothing else, the joint account is only 50% hers, so 50% is legally the deceased.
I think you should request it. She knows full well it was supposed to be used for the child (she had said she would be guardian to, then changed her mind.)
Any judge in the land would make her return it, at the very least into a trust for child

That’s not how joint accounts work. 100% of the money belongs to both account holders.

To me it is morally wrong. If you dont need the money thennitbshoul be put in a trust fund for DC. Its the child that cousin is stealing from ultimately.

I was actually thinking this might be one of those threads that’s actually the plot of a book!