To think most people would judge keeping this money

[JustAnotherWhinger]

Legally this person is perfectly entitled to keep the money. That’s not the debate. The debate is they are very offended that a few people (several of their family and some friends) have judged them for doing so as morally is very off.

A joint account was set up with a large amount of money (over 25k) between a person who was dying and their cousin. The reason for this was because their cousin had agreed to be guardian for their 3yo child. It was to ensure there was plenty of money about until things like pensions, insurances and probate were all sorted and in place.

However, after 8 weeks living with the Mum and DC the cousin realised they were not cut out to look after a 3yo.

The 3yo is now settled with their mum’s cousin from the other side of the family (in the interest of honesty - that cousin is me). They have contact with the original person one day a month. They are settled here and everything is all settled legally.

When our cousin died a very short time after (literally a few weeks) the joint account transferred solely to her cousin. That’s the legal position and legally it’s their money. However, a couple of their relatives (I don’t even really know them well) are now kicking up a stink about the fact they’ve still got the money and haven’t given it to us to care for the DC or put the money into an account in the DC’s name.

I was asked my opinion and said imo most people would judge that the money was for looking after the child so shouldn’t be kept by the original planned carer.

I’m not over fussed as we don’t need the money and the DC was well set up by their Mummy.
However, I do think it’s poor character to have kept it.

and for clarity - they are not over short of money. They didn’t give up or change their job in the plans to care for the DC (childcare was booked). There’s been no financial disadvantage to them.

No. That’s not how joint accounts work. There is no “her share.” With a joint account, all the money is fully owned by both people. When one person dies, the other person gets all of it. Even when both people are still alive, either person can empty the account and take all the money and it is not theft because it all belongs to them both so either can just take it.

Stealing from an orphaned 3yr old isn’t acceptable in any sense. I’d be absolutely fuming if I was you OP, you have a duty as a family to do your best to get it returned imo.

IIWY I would ask about this on the legal matters board, as I think a court might be sympathetic.

The PP has already acknowledged her mistake 🙄

Legally the account is theirs but the money in it belonged to the deceased, it was only put in the joint account for a specific purpose. I don’t know that there’s a way to get it back though other than going to court.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Speaks volumes about their character and morals. I'd seek legal advice to ascertain if it is worthwhile challenging. Perhaps the shocķ of a solicitors letter will spur them into doing the morally right thing?

I didn't find it at all confusing. The first poster just didn't read your OP properly and the second post was trying to make her feel better by saying it was confusing. Now you're apologising.

This all falls into my category of "too polite".

I think everyone close to the bad cousin should lean on them heavily to do the right thing. I hope they're not all too polite to do so and the bad cousin just gets away with it.

She is a disgusting horror of a human being. I don’t know how she sleeps at night.

YANBU. Stealing money meant for an orphan is pretty much Dickensian villain level twatishness

At the point this happened she was solely focussed on where her child was going to live.

Plans that had been carefully set up and managed for months and months fall apart literally as she knew she had a matter of days/a couple of weeks left and should be going to the hospice. She just wanted to know her baby wasn’t going to be homeless or end up in care.

Checked and rechecked by whom? Just because it’s a joint account doesn’t mean the survivor is the beneficial owner.

I think a very large amount of people, when faced with the opportunity of keeping £25k, would do so. I think it’s a limited moral question because it’s known that what we think we’d do is different from what happens when the opportunity arises

If it was made plain the money was conditional of it being for care of the child then morally they should at least give some of it to the kid in savings or to the person who's now their carer.

But ultimately lots of people do things regarding money that morally don't stack up so great and there's not much you can do about it. Other than shun the person and or tell others what happened and let them make their own judgement.

A combination of bad planning, bad communication and bad moral judgement.

And because of that, because you know her final weeks were spent in panic trying to sort out a home for her child and it was all she cared about, I wouldn’t let it lie. I’d have to ask. Even if she refuses, which she may well do, I’d still have to have my say on it with her. Because this child’s mum wanted the best for him and that included that money.

My suggested message may be too wordy, but I’d be sending it.

Isn't that an inferred trust? Are you sure you've had the right sort of legal advice?

In any case morally it's really shocking to have kept the money.

I think the idea of someone keeping the money when not entitled is reprehensible. I can't imagine my conscience allowing me to do that. The cousin keeping the money must have a very thick skin.

How terribly terribly sad, thank you for stepping up @JustAnotherWhinger. Think the child is best away from someone who would do this tbh. Miggt be legal but its not moral in anyones eyes

No doubt in my mind this is morally wrong. My advice to you, if you don't need the money, is to think about what will give you closure and the least stress.

As she is not going to act in the childs best interests, it is your duty to do so. Best start by you asking her for the money if she refuses ask her why and why she feels entitled to it. I can’t see a reason that tou have written as to why she is refusing to hand the money over. ?

Checked and rechecked by the probate lawyers, the financial specialists involved in the wider financial set up, one lawyer and the bank.

It has been checked thoroughly by the executors. As I said in my OP, it’s not a legal question. Legally the money is hers.

Honestly whether or not the money is needed it's clear it was for the child (who has lost their mother for god's sake), I am really not one for drama but I would absolutely kick up a stink. Obviously I would reasonably ask first but if the cousin really is going to pocket this money I would be letting everyone know they had stolen money from a child.

I don't even know you but in furious on your behalf.

the money was clearly for the benefit of the child, absolutely disgusting behaviour to not send that money to the person who is now raising the child. I can’t believe anyone would think its ok to keep that money given what the intention was.

Talking of morals if I were you I'd feel duty bound to shout from the rooftops what a scabby shitbag this person is. Legal or not actions have consequences and everyone should be aware of their falure to be a shred of a decent human

This is what I wondered but I don’t know the ins and outs of how trusts work, especially as it’s about 30 years since I learned anything about them!