The Green Party in Denton whored themselves out to secure a vote...

[Luckymum20]

The Green Party. A party for women. A party for equality. A party for the rights for gay and trans people.... They ran their campaign on the Gaza stance. To secure the vote of people who go against the majority of their principles.

I am disgusted that British Politics, which is already in the gutter, a party who should champion ethics and morals, has sunk this low.

Surly I cannot be the only one who thinks this way?

The leader of the greens literally said we need immigration because he doesn't want to wipe bums. If you think that means he's not racist I don't know what to say, it's one of the most offensive colonialist things I've heard lately (in a quite crowded field).

The greens cannot protect women's rights while defining woman as people who feel like women (what do women feel like?), it's not possible to protect women's rights while counting some males as women and some females as men. Your assertion that the majority of transwomen are benign isn't really supported by the evidence, eg prison stats, but even if they were all just lovely they're still men. Lots of men are lovely, it doesn't take away the needs for single sex provisions.

Please evidence your assumption that I support reform? I literally said greens and reform are as bad as each other and both are batshit. Your post is what I'm talking about, it's ridiculous to assume someone is a reform supporter because they criticise the greens. We're not in a cartoon, it's not goodies versus baddies.

Your assertion that the majority of transwomen are benign isn't really supported by the evidence, eg prison stats,

Well, yes and no. Transwomen do tend to exhibit offending patterns similar to males. It's not clear what the cause is, but that's the nature/nurture debate.

However, that doesn't mean the majority of transwomen aren't benign because we don't know how many there are. It would be interesting to see whether the % of transwomen who commit crime as a % of the total population is comparable to that data for men. But even if it is, that doesn't make it true that the majority of transwomen aren't benign.

How we handle the infrastructure of public spaces is a vexed question; I personally would like to see more gender neutral spaces, enclosed toilets with in cubicle handwashing facilities and separate sections in the prison estate for trans prisoners. Transmen aren't safe in the male estate either, so this would make sense.

The Green position on trans issues is too idealistic for my taste; however, the hostility and shortsightedness from the Tories and Reform will achieve nothing. I know enough transpeople to say that telling people to just use the toilets for their assigned at birth gender would cause enormous distress to the public.

I'm also concerned about toilet vigilantism; I have twice been challenged with verbal aggression in female toilets because I do not present as traditionally feminine. I assure you I have two fully functioning X chromosomes and have given birth twice, so I am not inclined to believe those who say 'you can always tell'. You can't, and getting it wrong has consequences.

The Green Party won the seat.
That's it.
End of.
🤷‍♀️

Why is it that the only women who have ever been accosted in the women’s loos and asked if they are definitely women are those sympathetic to the trans cause? Joylon Maugham’s wife has been accosted 4 times I think she claims.

I know many lovely trans people, but I still don’t think trans women should be in female spaces. Just under 1m women are sexually assaulted every year. I have been sexually assaulted a number of times. It’s a sad fact that men pose a threat to women and men simply in their spaces can be immensely distressing for many women. If a transwoman doesn’t feel safe in men’s loos that a problem for the men to solve. It’s nothing whatsoever to do with women.

Women who are unsympathetic to trans people won't complain about being challenged, will they? That should be obvious.

But instead of ranting about the Greens, we should be looking at changing public spaces so they work for everyone.

As a short haired trouser wearing no make up wearing woman, I would complain, and I'd blame the men who muscled into women's spaces for leading to women not feeling secure that everyone in a women's space was actually a woman such that they need to question other women. But this is a derail, not everything is about transpeople

If not everything is about trans people, why is it always used as a stick to beat anyone who isn't fully GC? Ditto Islam.

I doubt that the new MP will hang on to her seat at the next GE.

TBH what really appalled me was that apparently an official blind eye was turned to the ‘family voting’ - aka a male member entering the polling booth with a female or other junior family member and telling them where to put their X. Officials were said to be told to be sensitive to ‘cultural differences’ or whatever they called it - aka pandering to a complete disregard for our traditional, democratic voting practice.

If a person needs guidance because they are unable to read English, then IMO they should not have the right to vote anyway.

A blind eye or a seeing eye which didn’t notice something that never happened?

If Hannah Spencer’s performance as a constituency MP is the same standard as her acceptance speech she’ll hold that seat for a very long time.

You're unreasonable if you think that the Green Party is for the rights of women or gay people.
It is probably the most misogynistic and homophobic party out there, including reform.

It’s amazing that so many PPs are so happy to wave away serious and credible allegations of coerced voting which literally disenfranchises the Muslim people subjected to it, while calling those who object ‘anti Muslim’.

But then logic and consistent thought processes are not prominent within Green supporters.

Yes, these people are literally disenfranchising some Muslims with coerced voting. Presumably they think it’s fine because the result went their way. Supporting the denial of a free vote for some people is despicable.

There are many moderate Muslims who appreciate democracy and Western values. The PPs on this thread are siding with the more extreme end of the Islamic spectrum which is what many moderate Muslims came here to get away from. But they are so blinded by their self righteousness they can’t see it.

I have also seen interviews with Muslims furious because the Greens lied to them about their policies and they wouldn’t have voted for them if they had known.

A judge observed sometime ago that the standards enforced at some of our elections are at the level of a banana republic. He’s not wrong and it’s getting worse thanks to people like the Greens and their enablers.

Again you are preempting the outcome of the investigation to suit your own ideology.

And if these Muslim voters are really angry because they have been lied to, that's on them. There's this thing called the Internet, where at the tap of a screen anyone can find out what Green policy is. If you are stupid enough not to inform yourself before voting, that's your problem.

Actually I have pre empted nothing as it has already been admitted that it has happened. The only question is how widespread is it.

But PPs have been waving away the allegations and pretending it’s not happened at all.

Do you think that we should enforce our laws on on elections and voting so that ALL have a free and private vote, as is their democratic right, or do you support coercion and interference as long as it sides with your aims?

The way you and PPs have been arguing in this thread sounds like you are very content with disenfranchising of some Muslims.

And if these Muslim voters are really angry because they have been lied to, that's on them. There's this thing called the Internet, where at the tap of a screen anyone can find out what Green policy is. If you are stupid enough not to inform yourself before voting, that's your problem.

Are you actually serious? So you have no issues with a political party lying to the electorate, it is up to the voter to verify information for themselves using the internet. So all those non English speakers or those who don’t gave easy internet access just have to suck it up?

Di you ever take a step back and think about what you are saying?

I am very serious. There's bound to be translations of all manifestos available. Voting is an adult responsibility. People shouldn't expect to be spoon fed.

It's hilarious how the right goes on and on about personal responsibility when it comes to benefits, but not when people vote for the 'wrong' party. And if you live somewhere, you should speak the language. I speak 4 languages, where is the excuse?

And as I have said, let's await the outcome of the investigation. Someone saying something in an interview does not translate to 'the outcome of this election is invalid'.

Lastly, do you really think all those poor coerced Muslims would have voted Reform? This wasn't a close result.

FWIW I agree elections should be carried out in accordance with the law. So let's see what the investigation shows before we start saying this one wasn't just because the 'wrong ' person won.

And if you live somewhere, you should speak the language. I speak 4 languages, where is the excuse?

Farage would definitely agree with you on that point.

It still doesn’t justify lying though.

Lastly, do you really think all those poor coerced Muslims would have voted Reform? This wasn't a close result.

Who knows what they would have voted - the ballot box should be private. You sound like you’re in danger of making generalisations about all Muslims. You wouldn’t be doing that would you?

Which party was closer in number of votes to the Greens - was it Reform or Labour?

FWIW I agree elections should be carried out in accordance with the law.

Well that’s a relief. From your posts I thought you were quite happy to wave away and ignore allegations and evidence of Muslims being deliberately disenfranchised but I’m very glad to be wrong. It is very important that the law is enforced equally and nobody treated differently because of their religion (or race).

Maybe other PPs on this thread should have a little think about that too.

You’ll find we have thought about it which is why we’re waiting for the result of the investigation. If there’s evidence of electoral fraud I’ll be the first to join you in your criticism but currently there are only allegations from a single source, which apparently failed to notice the events in Jess Phillips’ constituency in 2024.

Yikes, I didn't know that about this group. It absolutely affects their credibility.

@JustSomeWaferThinHam you could fit a slice of wafer thin ham between the Labour and the Reform vote.

It's still highly unlikely that 4000 Muslim voters were all coerced into voting Green and would otherwise have voted Reform. If anything Labour might have been second if you take out a hypothetical coerced vote.

Matt Goodwin was not local, had slated Muslims and said people with British passports weren't necessarily British. Be honest: he alienated people whose vote he needed.

"And if you live somewhere, you should speak the language. I speak 4 languages, where is the excuse?"
"Farage would definitely agree with you on that point."

And? Is that supposed to be an insult? Speaking the same language unifies a country; it's vital to integration. And integration unifies society.

Exactly. You and I don't agree on much, but language is power. Mostly for women.

You’ll find we have thought about it which is why we’re waiting for the result of the investigation.

Is that right? I thought quite a few PPs were busily trying to dismiss any possibility of voter fraud (and I seem to remember a bit of name calling but really cba to go back over it) but great to know you are actually waiting to see what the outcome is.

There is definitely more than one source - with quite a broad range of stances so ut will be very interesting to see the outcome especially seeing as it sounds like the PO and the police have already lied about having no reported issues.

I’m charmed by your confidence that the police have definitely not been trained to ‘respect cultural differences’ to the extent that they turn a blind eye to criminal activity.

I mean it’s not like that several police forces don’t already turn a blind eye to criminal activities (and even allegedly facilitate them) when it come to ‘respecting cultural differences’ and raping white girls is it. Even our Prime Minister is very reluctant to turn over that stone.

What is it about the demographics of Jess Phillips constituency that makes you think independent observers should have noticed anything untoward in the election?

Do reform support the Welsh language in Wales - I couldn't see any policies on their website ?

Why do you think it is supposed to be an insult?

It’s good to find a point of agreement even at different ends of the political spectrum. Maybe you could look more closely at things Reform say (rather than just believing the spread widely blatant misrepresentations) - you might be surprised.

I do think that even Nigel might be a bit 👀 at Pointy’s rather harsh attitude toward voters that have been blatantly lied to by a political party and probably their community leaders.