To not even bother sending my child to school?

[MotherOfSEN]

DD is in Year 6 at a local primary school. She is neurodiverse (autistic and ADHD) academically capable with no EHCP. I have asked a couple of times about applying for an EHCP, but the school has said she needs very little support and therefore she is unlikely to get one. I appreciate I could apply for one myself, but I’d need some sort of reason, which I currently do not have. She doesn’t have friends as such, she sort of floats around with everyone and makes herself busy at school lunch times doing clubs or reading. She has started to find Year 6 trickier, with the expectations and the work load, as well as preparation for SATS. At home, she is little trouble, but does need to be repeatedly reminded about tasks eg putting clothes on the right way, washing hands etc. Her conversation skills also aren’t great; she mainly spends time reading, drawing or creating animations on her tablet.

Monday is secondary school allocation day. I don’t want her going to either of the local secondary schools. For context, I work in SEN and year after year I encounter many students who have had to leave these schools because the schools weren’t making reasonable adjustments, didn’t understand SEN, they were bullied etc. Many students describe the experience as traumatic and it takes a long time for them to recover.

I am very concerned about bullying and the busyness of the environment. She struggles to follow instructions and I think she will get lost in big classes, navigating a large school, the sheer amount of pupils (both over 1,000). She gets overwhelmed in stressful environments and other people need to be sensitive to this. She gets mortified when being told off by a teacher, or even if a teacher shouts and tells the class off, she is an absolute people pleaser.

When I spoke to her current teacher, they expressed that they didn’t think either secondary school would be ideal for her. Equally, the tutor she has to support her schoolwork also feels the local schools would be detrimental for her. Several extended family members that I have discussed this with feel that a large comprehensive would not be the correct choice.

I’m at the point of just thinking ‘sod it’ and home educating her. We have a fair amount of local home education groups and I would employ tutors for various subjects. I work flexibly so I can easily accommodate this for her.

My main barrier is her father who thinks she should at least try the local schools. He thinks she should go and then we remove her if she’s struggling. I think that would be an error as she is very compliant and sensitive, she would feel as though she has failed at school or should keep going until breaking point. I want to remove this issue altogether. My opinion is that it may be possible for her to rejoin school, perhaps in Year 9 or Year 10, maybe at that point we could fund private school for her or she will be older and more suited / capable for the big secondaries.

For context, her father only sees her every other weekend and has very little input into her life in any meaningful way. He has never even been to her primary school, so I don’t think his opinion is informed at all if I’m honest.

WIBU to just home educate her and not even try with the local schools?

All of the local secondary schools have parents complaining about their SEND offer including the one DD goes to. We picked it as I said because it was small and friendly and it has been great so far.
And they've also picked up on some of DD emotional needs, though academics are more of a worry for us. Even if other parents have a beef with a particular school, it's worth looking at. Even if it's quite far/you haven't thought of it yet. If I believed all the other parents DD wouldn't have a school yet.

My daughter did one for a while that allowed you to choose as many or as few subjects as you wanted. I don't know if that's still the case, but some were full time, and then I chose the one I did so I could fit in other home Ed activities.
It was actually great for quite a while and had loads of ND kids. They organised school trips etc and it worked quite well. She made friends.
I then managed to get her back into a school, because I was trying to save money. That failed. Pushed to get a PRU for emotional problems (rather than behavioural). That was actually really good, but it was a ridiculously long fight.
My other kid did go through mainstream with an ehcp and only changing school once, then to college, but actually he's the most affected by school out of the three.
The other one I even got him into a sen school for the last 3years, and even that was in hindsight barely OK, and even that school now has over double the number of kids in each class as it did then, and I've worked there now too, and I honestly think, if I knew then what I know now, I would have saved all of us the trauma and pain of it all.
Life doesn't actually have to be shit.

The process is supposed to take a maximum of 20 weeks, and there are steps you can take to enforce time limits (e.g. a threat of judicial review) if the local authority misses deadlines.

Of course it will grind to a halt if the LA refuses to assess or refuses to issue an EHCP and you have to appeal, but that can happen at any time. The law does emphasise that, in making these decisions, LA should look at what the child will need in the future, not just what she needs now.

Would the current school support you in saying your daughter will need an EHCP in secondary? If so, that should carry quite a lot of weight.

My business is a home tutoring company, we also provide tutoring to schools for children with EHCPs or who otherwise need additional support.

I know many children who are failed even with an EHCP, parents spend years fighting for the most minor of reasonable adjustments that are set out in the EHCP. If I am having to battle, fight the LA at every level, have multiple meetings with the school, it begs the question whether it’s actually the correct environment at all.

Hi op. I really empathise with you. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I have read all your posts. I am in a very similar position to you. I actually have two autistic children. My eldest (dd) started secondary last September, and it's going well so far. I was never especially comcerned about her, as my feeling was/is that it'll be OK for her. She has a strong friendship group (mostly of other neurodivergent children) and seems to manage well. My son however, currently in year 5, is completely different. He sounds very like your dd in many ways, and I am also starting to get pretty anxious about the start of secondary, as I feel much, much less confident about him. I am in a very similar position to you... I run my own small business from home, and am considering the possibility of home schooling him too.

Secondary school is just worlds away from the primary schools. His current school is so wonderful and supportive. The staff and students too are so caring.

I don't have advice really, as I'm a step behind you at the moment, but just wanted to offer solidarity. At the moment, I am leaning towards sending him to the local secondary when the time comes, but letting him know that withdrawing him and home schooling is always a back-up option. So at least he has that knowledge and the comfort and security it may bring him.

I agree. My girl had an EHCP and still didn't manage at mainstream.

She ended up going to a specialist school where she was much happier and received really good GCSE grades, particularly given everything that she'd been through, missing two terms of year 7 and all of year 8. The specialist school simply understood her needs.

When my younger child with similar needs started to break in Primary school, I decided to take earlier action and didn't force them in. I encouraged every day but if the response was dysregulation, then I didn't push like I'd done for my eldest child.

My younger child also didn't cope in Year 7 mainstream and so left. Was out of school until starting specialist in year 9 and is also doing really well. Predicted good GCSE grades and says that they feel like they belong in that school whereas they never felt like that in mainstream.They felt different and like an outcast in mainstream.

Take a guess whose mental health is much, much better? And, as their mental health is better, they are also achieving outside of school as well as in it. They are thinking about their future options whereas my elder girl is not likely to cope independently for many years due to her experience.

That is the true and long term impact of forcing ND kids into mainstream environments. With that lack of independence and level of need, it also hampers my career and the number of hours that I can work.

All of these shortsighted decisions about trying to save money by placing these kids in wrong environment costs the country and absolute fortune in the long run. It means that I pay less tax, my older girl needs support from healthcare and is nowhere near ready or able to work or even volunteer.

And the cost, stress and hell we went through to get those EHCPs was phenomenal.

If I'd had my time again, knowing what I know now, I'd have home edded from day one of Primary School. Both of my kids were ahead academically in numeracy and literacy on starting Reception because I loved playing with them, going to groups together and teaching them as we went. For example, we'd spot the numbers in the supermarket aisles and sounded out signs together.

As they got older, I would have done part tuition and part following interests.

Our family thrived in COVID. With us all being ND, we don't feel the need to be around other people and we didn't miss it.

What it did show me was how much my eldest child was struggling to understand what was going on in the lesson even though she was academically able. It showed me that either the school was completely oblivious to her needs and the anxiety this caused or that they were lying to me when they said she was 'fine' in school. In the end, myself or her Dad had to sit next to her off camera to offer prompts and assistance to help her to keep up.

And, more importantly, they were both happy and confident children before starting Reception. That soon got knocked out of them before the end of KS1.

Trust your instincts. Home educate her and apply for an EHCP at the same time. You gave nothing to lose in applying tbh.

Haven't read the full thread, but this is exactly where I was this time last year. I really didn't know what to do the best and my instincts were telling me not to send my autistic, dyspraxic, ADHD son to the local secondary school with the fairly poor reputation. However, we decided to try it as my husband was worried about the practicalities of home ed when we both work. It has been brilliant for him so far. He has found a small group of friends and genuinely enjoys going in. His anxiety was through the roof in the run up to starting and we very nearly didn't manage to get him in on the first day, but now here we are halfway through the school year and he's like a different kid. Don't get me wrong, there are still struggles, but I guess that's life... We can't remove every hurdle for our kids.
Anyway, just some food for thought 🤔

I think you have to approach this on the basis that you'll be doing it for seven full academic years (and I know you're not required to follow the academic year whilst home educating but it will make sense to do so when she's older).

Kids who can't cope with secondary school at 11 aren't going to be able to cope with it at 13/14. It's the wrong environment (and even with an EHCP there are things about the environment that can't be changed). You may be lucky and find a sixth form / FE College that takes kids in Year 10 for some of the week but that's not guaranteed.

In some circumstances it makes sense to try the mainstream secondary school knowing it'll fail spectacularly within a few weeks - it becomes strong evidence of need. If you're thinking there are realistically circumstances where you might have to stop home educating then it may be worth doing this. Yes, there's considerable risk attached - with the potential for it to be very difficult to help a child transition into any other school in the future.

I agree with your reasoning. If you already know the SEN support at the local schools is poor, and you can afford the time and cost of home educating, then I would choose that. (I also would not personally go with her dad's approach of 'try it and see'...this could completely destroy her and leave her in a much worse position than had she not tried at all.)

You probably already know, but most museums and some zoos have regular home education days, where children being home educated can come for free or a small cost to learn something specific, taught by an expert; so your DD would have a chance to socialise with others her age, should she wish. Good luck, OP. It's dreadful that this is the only 'choice' for so many people.

No one knows what will work best for your daughter better than you do. My son is AuDHD and probably has Tourette’s too. He’s 16 and in mainstream secondary doing his GCSEs. Although at times it’s been really hard, it’s been good for him socially as he’s build a good group of friends. The school has a huge range of clubs which has helped him find his people I think.

Honestly you sound like a wonderful mum and with your skills and knowledge are perfectly placed to home school her. I think it would be a wonderful gift to her to help her thrive. I do feel sad for all the kids that dont have this opportunity though. Every child should be able to thrive.

I notice the OP made no mention of asking her child how she feels about being removed from school by her mother. If her father, who I assume has some parental responsibility is not happy with the OPs plan and the child does not want it either then I assume the father could go to court to get a decision as to what is best for the child. At the moment it looks like the mother doesn't luke the secondary school options and only her opinion matters. I beg to differ. If the child wants to be home educated then that is different.

@MotherOfSEN you sound really informed and measured in your analysis of the situation.
It's the minority of secondary schools who put wellbeing first, and that's what's needed for pupils like your DD. But schools haven't kept up with changing needs and the rocketing diagnosis of ND. I think to try and fail would be devastating for your DD and given your ability to provide a strong personalised alternative for her that looks like a very positive option.

My DD wants to attend the small, private school. I cannot make this work with the current offer from them financially. She does not want to attend the big mainstream, she also thinks being homeschooled means she has ‘failed at school’ (this is what her father has told her).

I know someone who homeschooled from year 8 onwards.

it was purely so they could do year 7 and try to make some friends. Which did happen larger cohort and found more of their group.

They have thrived homeschooling and there is so many groups and support out there. You know your child better so go with your gut

Start the EHCP process as soon as possible.
SAR on the primary school to have all paperwork if they are not willing to help or support the EHCP application.
everything you have said is enough for an EHCP.
My son’s primary told me he wouldn’t get a diagnosis, let alone an EHCP and was just naughty. I too worked in SEN.
He did get a diagnosis in Year 6!

Started Mainstream secondary and couldn’t cope! And this was a secondary school with an ASD unit!
We got the EHCP and he was in specialist school by the November of year 8.

Hes now 17, in mainstream college by choice with GCSE’s doing mechanics.

both my late diagnosed autistic daughters do not socialise in the traditional way and haven’t since around Y4.
School was deeply traumatic for my eldest and she’s in college now, after finishing school working from home.

When my youngest started struggling in Y9, we did a watch and wait. But after a disastrous start to y10, we decided to home school.

Was the best thing I’ve ever done.

I do think though the experiences my girls had, have helped them understand themselves and also about people they do not want to associate with.

But for my eldest we have deep rooted trauma which is going to take years to fix.

@MotherOfSEN if you are sure you can support her academically then I would plan to homeschool/virtual school for years 7 and 8, and use that time to save enough to fund the smaller private school from year 9 - which would her a year to get used to being back in the school environment before GCSEs.

Tell her father this is the surest path to her making school a success, and talk to DD about why this will be the best plan too.

I hope her father is on board with helping you to save up for the private school funding.

She sounds very like my daughter. We sent her to a school in the next town that we felt was a better fit for her than the secondaries in our own town. Yes it’s a bus ride, but it’s a smaller school, and the SEN provision has been accommodating. We looked at a range of schools all outside our immediate area to find the one that we felt would suit her best.

I'd only home school as a last resort.

Your daughter deserves the chance to have a normal childhood and school experience - it will prepare her for life.

The more protected children are the less resilient they become and the more they will struggle as adults when nobody will be bothered to tippy toe around them.