To not even bother sending my child to school?

[MotherOfSEN]

DD is in Year 6 at a local primary school. She is neurodiverse (autistic and ADHD) academically capable with no EHCP. I have asked a couple of times about applying for an EHCP, but the school has said she needs very little support and therefore she is unlikely to get one. I appreciate I could apply for one myself, but I’d need some sort of reason, which I currently do not have. She doesn’t have friends as such, she sort of floats around with everyone and makes herself busy at school lunch times doing clubs or reading. She has started to find Year 6 trickier, with the expectations and the work load, as well as preparation for SATS. At home, she is little trouble, but does need to be repeatedly reminded about tasks eg putting clothes on the right way, washing hands etc. Her conversation skills also aren’t great; she mainly spends time reading, drawing or creating animations on her tablet.

Monday is secondary school allocation day. I don’t want her going to either of the local secondary schools. For context, I work in SEN and year after year I encounter many students who have had to leave these schools because the schools weren’t making reasonable adjustments, didn’t understand SEN, they were bullied etc. Many students describe the experience as traumatic and it takes a long time for them to recover.

I am very concerned about bullying and the busyness of the environment. She struggles to follow instructions and I think she will get lost in big classes, navigating a large school, the sheer amount of pupils (both over 1,000). She gets overwhelmed in stressful environments and other people need to be sensitive to this. She gets mortified when being told off by a teacher, or even if a teacher shouts and tells the class off, she is an absolute people pleaser.

When I spoke to her current teacher, they expressed that they didn’t think either secondary school would be ideal for her. Equally, the tutor she has to support her schoolwork also feels the local schools would be detrimental for her. Several extended family members that I have discussed this with feel that a large comprehensive would not be the correct choice.

I’m at the point of just thinking ‘sod it’ and home educating her. We have a fair amount of local home education groups and I would employ tutors for various subjects. I work flexibly so I can easily accommodate this for her.

My main barrier is her father who thinks she should at least try the local schools. He thinks she should go and then we remove her if she’s struggling. I think that would be an error as she is very compliant and sensitive, she would feel as though she has failed at school or should keep going until breaking point. I want to remove this issue altogether. My opinion is that it may be possible for her to rejoin school, perhaps in Year 9 or Year 10, maybe at that point we could fund private school for her or she will be older and more suited / capable for the big secondaries.

For context, her father only sees her every other weekend and has very little input into her life in any meaningful way. He has never even been to her primary school, so I don’t think his opinion is informed at all if I’m honest.

WIBU to just home educate her and not even try with the local schools?

It is governed by statutory timescales but I don’t know anyone who’s ever got it done in that time. The LAs simply break the law. It’s up to parents to challenge that through tribunals etc.

My DD sounds similar, except more social. Year 7 broke her, total burn out that resulted in no school and no support for 6 months and counting. Yet still we wait.

It’s a joke. The system goes from saying everyday of attendance matters and harassing you over every missed day to ignoring you and leaving you with nothing for months. I’ve even had the school SENDCO tell me a few terms off is no
biggie.

I give up. The system is killing itself and taking kids down with it.

@Bubbles332 I'm sure you do your best at work. No-one is attacking you here (some of your parents may be unreasonable - I get that as I can do my best as a teacher but I do get the occasional disgruntled parent, because we all do and people are human and not at their best when worried about their child).

However, why do you think local authorities lose over 95% of SENDIST tribunals? Do you not see that there must be law breaking at a truly epic scale to generate a figure like that? It is well above the figure for the employment tribunal, the immigration tribunal, the disability payments tribunal - which are no walk in the park to contest!

My daughter has an EHCP.

The local authority refused to assess her. I took them to tribunal and SENDIST said they must assess.

The assessment (unsurprisingly to me) found she had significant difficulties. I had to put a lot of work into making sure the assessment was done properly, ensuring every part of it was booked in and completed.

The local authority refused to issue a plan.

Second tribunal; SENDIST ordered them to issue a plan.

I'd quite like the two years of my life back while I did the LA's job for them. It wasn't like they were offering to mark A-level essays for me. And frankly I'd be fired if I was as slow and inaccurate with paperwork as them, and if I treated parents like they treated me (they don't even put their names on letters and I don't think they ever replied to an email unless I rang up and made them go through the inbox).

The school were pretty good but then it was private and I would have been extremely unimpressed if they'd not helped given the cost of DD going there. Even then they didn't "see" the ADHD and ASD until we had an assessment done, when they could suddenly see it!

I have not read the full thread but simply wanted to add that the two homeschooling families who live near me are very busy with groups and joint activities every day. They seem happy, well adjusted (at least two children are ND) and sociable.

I think if you are absolutely certain you can meet her educational needs at home you should do that.
The damage done at secondary schools to children like your daughter can be enormous.
I was your daughter 40 plus years ago and what happened to me has never left me and I sometimes wonder about the person I might have been without the way bullying changed me.

I’d say trust your instincts on this. If you have the means to provide a suitable education for your Dd in a supportive environment go for it. It’s something that may be a possibility for one of mine. There’s a huge proportion of us that don’t feel comforted by assemblies and school trips just because there a 400 of your peers sat alongside you. When I think back some of the most times I’ve felt most isolated are when I’ve been surrounded by people.

Likewise, this is difficult for parents of academic kids to visualise, but you could plonk DD in the best library in the world and she wouldn't pick up a book voluntarily, and you can send her to good lessons with some pretty good teachers and she will have 0 desire to do any homework, having from her point of view having sat there for 5 hours being more than enough already.

Fortunately she likes the social side of school!

I mean I hope one day she may be motivated to study because she really wants something out of it, but I think there would need to be some kind of direct financial reward. If I could apprentice her to a trade at 13 I would. She'd do a lot better with a very practical education.

I (ex primary teacher) feel that uts weird that school dont feel.an ehcp is needed , but in the same breath are saying that neither secobdary will be a good fit! Why not? What issues are there for them to think that?

Have you checked with the schools as to what they iffer? Our local secondary does wrap round 'care' for children who need it with playtime and dinner time activities/safe spaces. I work with kids with trauma and ours wouldn't use it, but if it is something your daughter is doing at primary school she may manage it at secondary. She would only be spending lessons with her whole class and breaks etc with children who are.also ND and friendships might be formed.

Have you discussed secondary with her? Does she have any worries and concerns?

Good luck because when a child isnt happy at school it can become an absolute nightmare trying to deal with school and support your child x x

@MotherOfSEN Join HEFA Home Education for All on Facebook, they’ve got all the info you need in the guides regarding your legal responsibilities as a parent and how to deal with the local authority and written responses to them etc etc. Personally I think you should trust your instinct. I occasionally wonder if HE was the right choice, (because it is not an easy choice and you are holding the responsibility and will be blamed if your child doesn’t succeed, even if school might have made them suicidal) and we’ve been doing it 8 years, then DS has a meltdown over something small and I know the stress would be a thousands times worse in school. He has a good circle of friends and attends scouts and karate so does enough socialising for him. There have been ebbs and flows but it’s always felt like the right choice for a happier child.

🤣 You obviously have never had the experience of trying to hold a business together and homeschool like so many of us did during COVID. It was, of course, considerably easier then because we were all forced to be at home. If you were out driving to group sessions and work experience and social meet ups 8 hours a day, would you still be able to run your business? Probably not.

I would not count your chickens before they hatch. Let her give school a go. So what if she’s reading in the library during lunch? That’s fine! Secondary schools have lunch clubs for exactly this reason. She’ll meet all sorts of kids who would rather code or read than socialise at lunch and that will be wonderful for her.

I know a girl who sounds just like your dd. She really struggled in primary and had no friends. She is a completely different child in secondary. She just needed to find her little tribe. She goes to lunchtime computer club and she’s now got her eccentric little troupe of drama nerd friends and she has blossomed and loves school. It’s been transformative for her. I’d give it go and see how she gets on rather than clipping her wings before she even has a chance.

I’ve been running my business for 14 years… including during Covid…

The myth being perpetuated is that the “School would also need to support an EHCNA”.

They don’t have to. It is possible to get an EHCP even if the school isn’t supportive of the need for an EHCNA and subsequently an EHCP.

The unlawful behaviour is LAs having blanket policies of refusing to assess or refusing to issue just because a school doesn’t support assessing/issuing. The thresholds for assessing/issuing are set out in the Children and Families Act 2014. Neither requires the school to support in order for the LA to agree. So if LAs have such blanket policies, it is unlawful.

Some schools perpetuate myths do a range of reasons. From a lack of understanding and being schooled in LA policy rather than the actual law to not understanding/recognising a particular child’s needs a many more. Also see myths such as you can’t get an EHCP for an academically able child, you can’t get an EHCP for a deferred child, we need to have spent £6k, we need 2+ APDR cycles, you can’t get an EHCP without a diagnosis, you can’t get an EHCP if your child isn’t attending full time, you can’t get an EHCP without an EP assessment first, it is impossible to get an EHCP for a child with dyslexia…

It isn’t “raring for a fight” to point out something isn’t correct.

My dd struggled at primary school, especially with friendships. I was incredibly worried abiut secondary school because I've been a secondary teacher for 25 years and know how awful it can be for some children. I have been blown away by how well she is doing both socially and academically since going to secondary. I think it would be a mistake to assume the experience your dd will have there.

Some are issued within the timescales. Some LAs achieve that more than others. You can see the statistics online if you are interested.

You can’t challenge a breach of the timescales via Tribunal. If necessary, you do it via a pre-action letter then JR proceedings.

Have you requested alternative provison under section 19 of the Education Act 1996? This is separate to the EHCP process. If you have but it hasn’t been implemented, you can look at a pre-action letter and JR for that if you want to.

There are children who "find their tribe" at secondary; of course there are.

However, I have taught year 13s with EHCPs (and tremendously supportive parents) who haven't managed to make friends at all in the 7 years. My niece only managed it at 16 when she moved schools to somewhere single sex and much smaller.

I don't know much about home ed but I'd have thought if you can find the right group, children would already have quite a lot in common and the shared experience of doing the group. Plus if your child doesn't like the group, you can simply stop.

All year 7 have in common often is being the same age, and maturity levels can be worlds apart.

I reckon my LA could have managed the 20 weeks if it hadn't been for the tribunals.

I must say it was a real eye opener for me the lengths they were prepared to go to to deny us an assessment though. And as LAs go, they're better than some of the others!

I realise my daughter EHCP "journey" will make me sound like a thicky as I'm not quite sure how it happened.
Primary and secondary school dismissed my concerns, said the wellbeing team could support her, she didn't need an EHCP.
I applied in year 9 and was turned down. Told to appeal by other SEN parents, appeal failed. Local council woman was obviously massively annoyed at being there as she had no idea about my daughter. But the chap in charge of the appeal told the school off as they had no info on how they were supporting my daughter and suggested they basically get their act together.

About 6 months later school had organised an educational psychologist to see my daughter (in council offices as she wasn't attending school.) Another visit two months later and some easy form filling from me and they issued an EHCP, in the march of year 11.

All of this could have been avoided from year 1 if I'd been listened to.

I know a girl who sounds just like your dd. She really struggled in primary and had no friends. She is a completely different child in secondary. She just needed to find her little tribe. She goes to lunchtime computer club and she’s now got her eccentric little troupe of drama nerd friends and she has blossomed and loves school. It’s been transformative for her. I’d give it go and see how she gets on rather than clipping her wings before she even has a chance.

And I know a girl like op's DD who was horrifically bullied through secondary and tried to take her own life by 16 as a result. She did not find her tribe, she did not fulfil her academic potential, and she has never really recovered.

Not sure why anyone thinks home educated children wouldn't be able to achieve GCSEs or A levels. Presumably they know nothing about home education or organisations like NEC.

Was there any state school that could support her?
Did you apply for it?

If so you can appeal. If you go to the secondary education board after allocation day and put a title like 'Appealing for SEN child without EHCP' in the title then you will get help.
You would need to identify why your preferred school would be good for your DD and why she would be disadvantaged by not attending.
For example smaller school, some specific pastoral things the offered school doesn't have, or whatever. For good measure if she has an interest the preferred school can better support (eg an extra curricular club) all the better.

Op you can't really know which is the best option until you try it.
If I can make some general suggestions - It sounds like you have a good feel for what the home ed community is like locally. Is there anyone with a similar age child that you could meet up with? Once you are sure it's viable and something you want to do, I think your daughter needs to be part of the conversation.

As part of that conversation, I think I would want my daughter to agree to try some meetups and classes. It can take a lot of trial and error to find the best fit for your daughter and she would need to be aware that friendships grow slowly and more than one visit would be advisable before writing anything off.

A friend pulled her daughter out of secondary within the first few weeks. It was absolutely the right thing to do and allows her to grow in confidence and maturity if she wanted to try again in year 8 or 9.

The main thing is when it gets to the teen years, teenagers know there are social expectations and it they don't have friends, whether at school (there's nothing as lonely as being alone in a crowd) or through home educating, they may start to feel that lack quite acutely so trying to nourish some friendships is important. At 14-16, young people in our area tend to disappear from home ed groups and arrange things with their own friends. In a neighbouring county there are a lot more around, however still attending group stuff. 12/13 it's perfect for finding plenty of peers and making friends.

My other advice - and it seems from your post is that it will be well under control is to keep an eye on the future and ensure she can move on to the next step at the same age as her peers. Our experience across lots of different 6th forms (from my children and their friends) is that home ed kids tend to thrive in an environment where the kids are all there because they want to be so they're aren't discipline problems or a need for a raft of complicated and stressful rules.

I agree with you op. My children all were battered and bruised by the education system and I also worked in send. And in mental health since.
If I had to do it all again, I wouldn't.

Have you looked into some of the online schools? Might give the best of both worlds

I’d move before I home educated

I don’t think there are any local state schools that can support her. They are all too big, don’t have good SEND departments and are all renowned for having little to no support. I work in this area and hear on a weekly basis how the local schools are failing SEND children and how parents are having to pull their children out (even those with EHCPs don’t get the support).

She needs a small, caring environment, with staff who know her well, that’s unachievable in a large mainstream secondary.

You're not a "thicky"!

People in positions of authority misled you and did their jobs badly.

As for exams, most are perfectly doable.

You find an exam centre and book the exam.
Things to know are that exam centres can easily provide things like more time or a laptop, but things like needing own rooms can't usually be accomplished. You would need proof of why your child needs any adjustments which can be costly to arrange a private assessment.

Current costs from our two local exam centres are exam board fee (eng lit that I've just booked is £60) + £100 admin fee.
Our other centre is less transparent about costs and the same exam is around 260.

Dual science would be more as it is 6 papers rather than two.
Languages would have an additional invigilation fee or assessor fee.

We have done a combo of small face to face group lessons, self study with parental support, online live lessons, self study with some input from a tutor.
My daughter doesn't like apps or pre-recorded courses.