To not even bother sending my child to school?

[MotherOfSEN]

DD is in Year 6 at a local primary school. She is neurodiverse (autistic and ADHD) academically capable with no EHCP. I have asked a couple of times about applying for an EHCP, but the school has said she needs very little support and therefore she is unlikely to get one. I appreciate I could apply for one myself, but I’d need some sort of reason, which I currently do not have. She doesn’t have friends as such, she sort of floats around with everyone and makes herself busy at school lunch times doing clubs or reading. She has started to find Year 6 trickier, with the expectations and the work load, as well as preparation for SATS. At home, she is little trouble, but does need to be repeatedly reminded about tasks eg putting clothes on the right way, washing hands etc. Her conversation skills also aren’t great; she mainly spends time reading, drawing or creating animations on her tablet.

Monday is secondary school allocation day. I don’t want her going to either of the local secondary schools. For context, I work in SEN and year after year I encounter many students who have had to leave these schools because the schools weren’t making reasonable adjustments, didn’t understand SEN, they were bullied etc. Many students describe the experience as traumatic and it takes a long time for them to recover.

I am very concerned about bullying and the busyness of the environment. She struggles to follow instructions and I think she will get lost in big classes, navigating a large school, the sheer amount of pupils (both over 1,000). She gets overwhelmed in stressful environments and other people need to be sensitive to this. She gets mortified when being told off by a teacher, or even if a teacher shouts and tells the class off, she is an absolute people pleaser.

When I spoke to her current teacher, they expressed that they didn’t think either secondary school would be ideal for her. Equally, the tutor she has to support her schoolwork also feels the local schools would be detrimental for her. Several extended family members that I have discussed this with feel that a large comprehensive would not be the correct choice.

I’m at the point of just thinking ‘sod it’ and home educating her. We have a fair amount of local home education groups and I would employ tutors for various subjects. I work flexibly so I can easily accommodate this for her.

My main barrier is her father who thinks she should at least try the local schools. He thinks she should go and then we remove her if she’s struggling. I think that would be an error as she is very compliant and sensitive, she would feel as though she has failed at school or should keep going until breaking point. I want to remove this issue altogether. My opinion is that it may be possible for her to rejoin school, perhaps in Year 9 or Year 10, maybe at that point we could fund private school for her or she will be older and more suited / capable for the big secondaries.

For context, her father only sees her every other weekend and has very little input into her life in any meaningful way. He has never even been to her primary school, so I don’t think his opinion is informed at all if I’m honest.

WIBU to just home educate her and not even try with the local schools?

That's a very rose tinted view of what school is like and not remotely what it's like being an ND child in a mainstream secondary.

Turning to another poster's remark about unemployed 20-somethings, I think children who have had a damaging or traumatic time at school are more likely to be the ones who cannot cope in the workplace. Breaking someone does not enable them to cope with greater challenges.

The op isn't talking about keeping her child locked in her bedroom, she's talking about making arrangements that enable her to thrive and reach adulthood well-adjusted and confident, rather than a broken shell who hates herself because she spent secondary school being bullied for being "weird" and in a permanent state of distress.

YANBU I'd trust your instincts on this one and home ed.

We're a home educating family, and it really is amazing. The only people who have negative opinions on it are the ones who know nothing about it. Believe me, we have to grow a thick skin being home educators, our eyes also hurt a lot from all the eye rolling we end up doing at them 🙄😂

I'm genuinely curious what information you think a primary might hold? The vast majority of pupils would have no written records held about them - perhaps their name on a behaviour report now and again or on a list of intervention children, but even they would be a real minority of pupils. I honestly think a SAR for many of our children would turn up literally nothing. I don't send emails or keep written records (aside from end of year reports) for most children. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious?

Absolutely this, we are in the same position. We have been through depression, suicide attempts and now anorexia. A compliant people pleasing child will hide her trauma till it gets to the point of total breakdown and the damage that will do is incalculable.

Many autistic girls cope in primary and unravel on transition to secondary because the demands are so much greater. Schools by and large have no idea how to support these kids.

How much are the fees? If you think they're decent alternatives I would go private over homeschool. If you home school as a single parent that's what, 6h/d so 30h/week of unpaid work plus your job on top. If you worked 30 extra hours (either for your current role or somewhere else) would you be able to afford private school?

Op, when I read your thread title I thought, "oh well you probably should bother..."

Then I read your post and I see where you are coming from. It sounds like you can put together home education arrangements that would better meet your daughter's needs. There is a valid reason to think the secondaries available will not meet her needs and instead cause harm. I don't see why you should have to send her there just to prove it's as damaging as you expect.

If I was sure there were no other better options and that I could make arrangements to provide good education and meet her social needs (including supporting her to develop her social skills further and preparing her for post-18) then I would probably make the same decision in the circumstances you describe.

The only part I would probably disagree with is how realistic it would be to send her to one of these secondaries in year 9 or 10. I doubt that would have any better outcome and would quite possibly be worse than sending her in year 7. I think that would be a very stressful time to get dropped into an environment like that.

Some people may be reacting more to your thread title than what you have said subsequently.

If your two local choices don't have large SEN departments which would support your DD, I think you are right to trust your judgement.
I wouldn't discuss it any further with DD's father. You are the primary carer and heartless though this might sound, you say he hardly has any input in her life and you are doing the child rearing.
If he asks which school she has been allocated, tell him but just don't say whether she is going to go or not until you have a full plan drawn up for homeschooling.
You can withdraw her at any point.
Only you and DD know what is best for her.

Emails. The OP's described a child with significant social communication issues. It seems likely someone will have commented on them in the 7 years she's been at the school.

Are you sure there are no alternatives for mainstream? My DD is similar - not ASD but struggles a lot more with academics. Waiting on an ADHD assessment.
She is in a much smaller secondary - it's only taken in 90 this year but in 4 classes. It's rural and a bit of a commute but she likes it and is having her first sleepover tonight.
Edit: and get the EHCP.

I agree. School broke my Autistic/Adhd daughter too. She’s 21 now and I don’t think she’ll ever recover from it, the trauma has been horrific. Trust your gut.

She describes her social skills as "not great". That's hardly "significant communication issues" is it. I'd also be surprised if the school had anything beyond maybe noting she was one of the quieter pupils.

Schools should be monitoring DC with SEN. There should be some form of SEN plan (called different things in different schools/LAs - IEP, ISP, My Plan/My Plan Plus, One Page Profile, etc.) and the information from APDR cycles, including from the interventions and support put in place.

There will be attendance records, attainment records and behaviour records. There may be minutes or transcripts from meetings, records of telephone conversations, CPOMS, accident records, etc. Maybe not for the OP’s DD but for some DC this can include things like individual risk assessments.

Your school is unusual if they don’t use email. Both internal and external.

I think you're overestimating how much communication there is about pupils. I barely send or receive any emails about children in my class. Conversations with other staff are normally face to face. Even for children on the SNED register, there would be very few emails beyond 'Kate from speech and language will see Bill on Tuesday at 2' and those sent to parents themselves.

"Struggles to follow instructions."
"Needs to be repeatedly reminded about tasks."
"Doesn't have friends as such."
"Gets overwhelmed in stressful environments."
"They didn't think either secondary school would be right for her."

There's quite a lot here the school could potentially comment on/have noticed. It's pretty rubbish if they really think the secondaries are unsuitable, not to have done anything about support till this late in year 6 tbh!

I agree with this poster, as an autistic secondary teacher who was (obviously) an autistic child.

Dropping into Y9 (options / beginning of GCSE) or Y10 is just about the most stressful time you could join. Presumably, you're considering this because you won't be able to home ed the GCSEs. As a head of dept in charge of the curriculum, teaching for GCSE begins in Y7. Your daughter will be quite far behind by Y9.

I took one of mine out of secondary after year 7 but two stayed on at their big state comps. I would say this; your daughter may actually find kindred spirits in a larger school especially if she likes clubs and reading and is academic. Even the son I took out said that when he went back into school in the end of year 9, that he found the group lessons and social opportunities stimulating. Even children with social communication difficulties, long to be part of a group, imho.
If she is academic she may thrive with group teaching; my son didn't like learning one to one despite his dyslexia - he felt overwhelmed by the pressure of one to one tutor situations but enjoyed the class vibe if he was interested in learning. He also thought he was well behaved compared to other pupils,( sadly for them) and that booster his self esteem rightly or wrongly. He learnt he had skills when he was in a group setting that some didn't have and he learnt tolerance and empathy for his peers over time.

That is not to say home education wasn't a good solution for us for two years but our goal was to get him back to school with proper support and diagnosis of SpLD as well as his autism. So having a sense of your goals and also being aware of how children do mature even if you feel very wary now of her ability to cope in secondary , things may change as she grows. Ds then very much enjoyed his secondary and has peers from school very much like him he is still friends with at 23.

It doesn’t sound like her needs are high enough or complex enough to require and EHCP. I also don’t know what people think it will do. What exactly do they think schools can do?

HE is a good option if you really think she won’t cope but I can also see where her Dad is coming from.

OK, I teach in a secondary and there would be plenty.

It's not very kind to secondaries (or the kids first and foremost) to send kids into them to sink or swim when they're already having significant difficulties at primary.

The SEN Code does NOT say the EHCP system is only for children who are significantly behind academically.

Ds went back at end of year 9 and did seven GCSEs and gained from 6 to 8 in all of them. Admittedly no language. He was NOT behind, he did considerably better than his brother who had been at school throughout!

The schools l worked at had written info on every student. Including all behaviour/pastoral and well being interventions.

All students on the register would be reviewed once a term and written notes made from this.

The school will have info somewhere.

And at what cost will that dismal failure come? Letting a child try and try to fit in and to achieve against all odds, and deal with the inevitable breakdown when it comes isn’t parenting.

There would be no chance of getting an EHCP through in time for secondary (we requested ours at the beginning of year 5 and didn't get it till summer of year 6) but it has made a huge difference. DD got an extra, smaller transition day, a named person who meets with her each week, ELSA and SEMH support, safer travel training and some OT. She is thriving in year 8 and achieving at an average academic standard.

I'm not saying seeking assessment would be pointless at all, just saying it takes time and effort - the educational psychology report would hopefully be enlightening for one thing.

Ds school had a lunch club for SEN pupils which was solved the bullying /stress of breaktimes. He had a learning mentor to talk to if he felt upset too. All non academic pastoral interventions which supported him. That's what schools can do. There are lots of things schools can do. Also adaptations for anxiety

That is really encouraging. Well done him and you!

On the plus side, the birth rate is falling so it's possible schools may have more in year places than in previous years.

Please don’t do a SAR as a PP suggested. It is highly unlikely that the school is hiding a tranche of data about your child to thwart you from getting an EHCP. Schools don’t have staff allocated to do the SARs and it just wastes everyone’s time. The SENCo should be coordinating provision across the school, not sitting redacting a list of people who’ve won a costume competition or emails saying ‘Timmy, Jimmy, Bobby and Jane need to return their permission slips for the trip tomorrow.’ If I mistrusted my own child’s school to the point I thought they were lying to me and hiding things from me maliciously I would pull him out, not do a SAR as a ‘gotcha’.

School would also need to support an EHCNA (OP I know you know this, just for others who might see this) and if they don’t have evidence that she needs one they won’t be able to support the application.

OP, I’m really sorry you’re in this position. Is there a SENDIP or transition service in your council’s local offer that could help? For pupils like your daughter I would normally do a handover with the secondary SENCo and information share meeting where they get to meet the parents. We organise things like buddy systems, extra check-ins with adults, executive function support. I know you’ve said they’re no good with SEN, which is a shame. What does your council’s local offer page say? Is there a parent consultation service with the Educational Psychologists you can access? An autism outreach team that could go in and observe her? Just max out what you’ve accessed on the local offer before you make a decision.