To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

The thing is though, I absolutely don’t doubt that he wants me.

He doesn’t want kids or to get married and never has.

Then you can't be helped.

He wants you as a stand in/place holder at best.

I think relationship suggests longevity, and that's what he's reluctant to commit to.

But he literally doesn’t want you as his girlfriend? And that clearly bothers you on some level or you wouldn’t have made the thread.

Do you think a relationship is one sided?Both people agree to be in a relationship. He hasn't agreed to that. That means you're not in one, no matter how hard you insist you are. You're ignoring his point of view.

You're Ms Right Now rather than Ms Right. If someone he likes better comes along, he's out of there. He doesn't care that you call him your boyfriend because it means zilch to him.

When you’ve met his mum or his sister or whatever, how were you introduced?

how is Christmas? Does he spend it with his girlfriend (you?) or what? I know lots of men hate the term “partner” but anyway. Do either of you have children? If he got sepsis and was rushed to hospital, would his family ring you to tell you? Do you know who is lawyer is, do you have keys to his house and vice versa.

if some total stranger said to his dad “is your son single?” Would his dad say “no, he has a lovely girlfriend Beingaboyt that we adore” or would he say “there’s a woman he makes reference to that we’ve met a few times but I don’t think she’s forever, for various reasons he’s mentioned.”

There's something though isn't there OP?
He's not articulating it but he's telling you there is something this isn't, something for him that is missing and doesn't make this a relationship.

You can pretend that it's fine because day to day it works as if it were a relationship.

But he's categorically told you it's not.

I would bet money he's also told family and friends this and refers to you as a really good friend.
And they all feel slightly awkward because they know you think it's more and he's been clear to them it's not.

All your replies say how great he is and how happy you are, he won't be unfaithful, he wants you, etc so what's the problem?

When a man really loves a woman he won’t want to hide it. He will want to tell everyone.

I think you deserve more than this OP. You always hear about these situations with apparently commitment phobic men. Until they meet the right woman and they get married and have kids so fast your head will spin.

Again you could be in for a nasty shock on that.
We've all seen the man who suddenly meets The One and wants everything, kids and marriage, and who ditches the fine for now filler girl.

Either way he's told you he doesn't want what he has with you to be regarded as a relationship.

I can't afford the Maldives but I'm perfectly happy with Greece for the time being. Like your "bf" @Beingabout

It will definitely be to do with his childhood. He needs therapy but only he can decide to do that. I think you are wasting your time OP. You say you're happy but if you truly were you wouldn't be posting about it on mumsnet. Speaking as someone who wasted 10 years of their life on a man who didn't want to commit, I would say have a proper think about what you want your life to look like and if you can accept it as it is then crack on.

As a friend - I met them well before we were ever anything else.

We usually spend Christmas Eve together but the day with our families. We both have young nieces we both want to see on Christmas Day.

Yes, if he was rushed to hospital I’d be told. I know he doesn’t have a lawyer. We don’t have keys to each other’s houses, we’d never use them.

I think they’d probably just say he was seeing someone.

For heaven’s sake, OP. You said years ago that you would only be ‘back in touch’ with him if he wasn’t seeing anyone else. He agreed. He’s (presumably, as far as you know) not currently seeing anyone else. But as he doesn’t regard himself as in a relationship, he’s within his rights to describe himself as single, isn’t bound to not keep an eye out for someone he would be interested in a relationship with, if he met her. Just as I wasn’t looking for a relationship when I ran into DH, but found one anyway.

This isn’t really relevant but I have a friend who has been with her “you’re not my girlfriend” boyfriend for 10 years and had a son with him. At Christmas he gave her 4 ct diamond ring (they were staying with his family in their big house in Sussex) and said while he really didn’t want to get married (he has always been clear about this), he wanted her to have a house deposit in case she didn’t feel secure. The ring is her house deposit. As it happens she owns a house already and has tenants in it but he acknowledges her lack of financial security and also she now has a vast diamond engagement ring. She is open and saying they won’t get married but she has a good career, a sparkly stone, her own home and a man who thinks through the her downsides to his decisions.

if a man won’t admit you’re his girlfriend and you enjoy that, ok, but make sure he’s the sort of man who can see where the gaps in his strategy are for you and your security and happiness.

What are these strings?

You think he’s exclusive - but we all know that even in fully declared & accepted relationships, even joined by living together, marriage & children, exclusivity can be abandoned when one person’s head gets turned.
Now think about two people who, by one’s insistence, aren’t even in a relationship - think how much looser the bonds are, how much easier to leave the situation if one’s head gets turned.

My gut feeling OP is that he’s with you for convenient companionship & easy sex, just “for now”, he’s declared exclusivity to keep you quiet, and he will bail the second he meets a woman he has a real connection with.

But I’m only echoing many others, but you don’t seem to want to hear the obvious. So if you’re happy with the situation/non-relationship you keep defending, absolutely crack on! But if you’re not, then follow the excellent advice from PP.

I think they’d probably just say he was seeing someone.

There you go. That's what you're doing 'seeing someone'.

No commitment.
No relationship.
Just spending time together.

I think you need to clarify with yourself and with him, what you want from this relationship and what he wants. His reluctance to say he is in a relationship is a red flag and your reluctance to acknowledge his stance is a bigger red flag. If you are happy with his lack of commitment and don't want more from the relationship, then fair enough. But be honest and don't waste your time if this isn't what you really want.

He doesn’t love you enough. Plain and simple .

Ive been there, with a fat lazy oaf. I’m now with a perfect man who didn’t think twice about labelling us. You’ll make excuses for it/him though.

If you have to ask the internet I would be very wary.

Ask him outright - if he cant answer or commit straight away you are a FWB.

I would actually say if you dont already know you are a FWB.

If he doesn’t want to refer to you as his girlfriend, well then I’d be calling it quits .
Like come on , you do everything as couples do together, yet there is some reason he doesn’t want to call you his gf .
I’m guessing whatever it is , you won’t like OP 🤷🏻‍♀️.
I wouldn’t be happy being with someone I view as my bf but he doesn’t see me as his gf !
Fuck that .

The thing is, it wouldn't matter if every single person on here agreed with you that this is a
'relationship'.

He is the only person whose opinion matters and he says its not a relationship.

So it's not.

It doesn't even matter if you can look at it and think, well this, that and the other all point to it being a relationship. He doesn't want a relationship with you.

I’ve asked him a few times how exactly what we are differs from a relationship, and he can’t answer.

It's to do with how he feels. He's more than happy to tick along nicely with you for however long it last, but he knows this has an expiry date. He just hasn't decided when that is yet. But it will likely be when he meets someone he does want a relationship with.

You can't see the difference. But he can. And it's his opinion you're trying to change. He doesn't want to use the term relationship and that's his choice. You can't force him to change his mind just because you don't agree with him.

Also, a friend of mine did this to a woman. The cooked for him, cared for him, let him stay at hers whenever he felt like. They went on holidays to Portugal and in the uk in the last year of their ‘relationship’ . He still told everyone they were friends even though it was clear they were sleeping together. … He’s now moved on with a woman who he told straight away was his girlfriend. The other woman is on her own looking like a fool.