To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

It's not about punishment

You keep saying there is no difference between what you have and a more traditional relationship. In fact, you're really quite adament about the fact that there would be no difference between him ending his 'relationship' with you as it stands or if you were married with 3 kids because 'men on here do it all the time'

I'm just pointing out that there are differences, Fairly significant and identifiable ones at that

So was this mutual or from him?

I guess it’s developed mutually.

Okay. So a difference is less admin if one of us wants to walk away (which wouldn't change one iota if he started calling it a relationship tomorrow) than we’d have with marriage and kids neither of us want anyway.

So the main reason you posted was because he won’t say if you’re in a relationship or not? To me, with all your other answers since your OP then I don’t think this matters. However, I think you think it matters deep down and maybe you do want more but you’re not prepared to admit it to yourself and saying the opposite to appease yourself. The fact is, some posters have asked other questions around why he won’t say he’s in a relationship and it’s upset you as you don’t think he’ll be like that, from what you know of him. Only you know if he’s worth sticking with, believing, trusting him. Like a few of us said you wouldn’t post here asking your OP unless you wanted insight and answers, which you’ve got. Maybe you expected people to say oh it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t say he’s in a relationship or dodges the question. The final thing I’d say. One of my mum’s platonic male friends had a brother. He’d been married I think and had a child but now the child was grownup he moved abroad and into a commune situation, basically not committing or vomiting to a certain degree but keeping his options open. I’ve got no idea what he’s doing now. But it does seem your boyfriend is avoidant at least. You even said this I think and referred back to his mother childhood. Sometimes these issues are deep seated and won’t change.

Really?

You don't seem to grasp that there are important distinctions between a relationship that is made public by naming it as such to others (in this case him calling you his girlfriend/partner) and one that is just a fwb.

To his friends and family you're just his fwb. This means no invite to special family occasions. You're not regarded as anything special to them.
That would piss me off.

If you were his girlfriend, there'd be a good chance that he'd be held accountable and berated by others in his and your social circles if he treated you unfairly.

But above all if he were really into you he'd be proud to announce to the world that you were together. He's clearly not.

I don't understand how you've got to your age without seeing that a relationship is about more than the two people involved.

I really don't.

And of course you're right to say that anybody can leave anyone at any time but, with respect, that's not the effing point.

Agreed.

what is the issue then and why did you make a thread?

😩😂 Why didn’t you read it?

Yes?

He doesn’t treat me unfairly though. There is nothing to berate.

OP, with all kindness... if he loved you, if he thought you were the woman he wanted to be with... he'd be proud to be in a relationship with you, proud to call you his partner, proud to introduce you as such to his family and friends.

Sounds like a situationship, which rarely progress onto a relationship. I haven't read the whole thread but have seen your post where you say you don't want anyone else because they're "not him". That says you absolutely do want a relationship with this man, but he is not committing to you. Do yourself a favour. Ask him for that commitment before wasting any more time on him. If he says no, walk away.

She went running back to him and he/she both changed. Says it all really. Bet he can’t believe his luck to have a real life puppet on a string.

That’s not quite right - I was responding to someone who was asking me to imagine I met ‘someone exactly like him’ but who wanted a relationship. I was replying to say they would not be him.

To be honest I think I’m the lucky one that he had me back. I wouldn’t have if he’d fucked of with someone else for three months then tried to get back in touch when it all went tits up.

Probably bc you’re more emotionally committed than he is. His acceptance you describe says it all really.

Im wondering if this is a reverse or someone who’s bored and is gleaning a lot from the interactions of a load of strangers online. If he respected or was proud of being with you he’d call himself your bf/partner. It also sounds like a form of demand avoidance

Nah he was gutted. I knew fro mutual friends.

Please do not spend any more time of your life wondering. Life’s too short. Just don’t comment any more.

Who are you trying to convince here? Us or yourself?

Just go ask the man to be your boyfriend and you'll have your answer 🙄

Do YOU think you are in a relationship?

If the answer is yes, why do you feel the need to pose the question in the first place?

You are very defensive and closed to people’s opinions about it. Is that because they might be right?

Perhaps the reality is you’re slightly unnerved by it and you’re trying to convince yourself that you are in a relationship.

Well they're all nice at first. Wait till the shit hits the fan either between you or a situation beyond your control.
Let's see if he steps up.

I doubt that he will because a man who can't commit to the lowest level of commitment there is without um-ing and aah-ing is probably not much use in a crisis.

Or simply not that into you.

Demand avoidance? You could be right. Another reason why she should get rid of him.
I'm not denigrating him as a person but such a guy is a shit partner.

On the subject of avoidants in general, they tend to commit to being a boyfriend very quickly (too quickly) if they're very into someone then turn very cold later, though. Ask me how I know. Lol.

I didn’t say there’s no difference ‘except the title’?

The difference is that one of you believes you’re in a relationship and one of you doesn’t…

And I think that to be in a relationship both parties need to mutually agree they’re in one.

You made a thread about whether it matters that he doesn't use the word relationship. People responded about several facets of this.

1. administration and practicalities - it makes it harder for him to leave than if he was married.Fine, you responded, about a zillion times, I don't want it to be hard for us to leave. So that's ok.

2.emotional - someone who won't use the word might not really like you much. Some posters have suggested that without the escalation to a more committed relationship someone has to be really against the prevailing social climate, or they have to be not into you. No, you replied, it's definitely a good relationship and he treats me well and we love each other. So that's ok.

1. Attachment- others of us have said he is clearly avoidant and so are you, because from what you say of him, neither are able to have a functional conversation where your emotions are fully engaged and integrated and you can each face, surface and sit with your fears of commitment. (Also- all the other men were "too much"? Hmmmmmm) Your responses to those have been to say yeah it's probably his childhood or to bat off these sort of comments or ignore them. You have shown no introspection into yourself here.

Even on a "chat forum" you will reveal yourself, wittingly or unwittingly. It's kind of usual for people to make threads and then allow themselves to be changed by the emotional perspectives they get. We are saying what we see. The problem is not 1 or 2 but 3. You're not willing to introspect, chances are you are not very skilful in your emotions specifically on this point. Luckily neither is he, so you do ok day to day, but you are living in stasis and living with vulnerability to events, while people who are more integrated are more resilient.

If that didn't bother you deep down you would never have posted.