To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

You seem rather defensive op.
fine, crack on then 😂

He wouldn’t, and you don’t know him.

So why keep going back to a man who has told you loud and clear he doesn’t want a relationship with you?

If they’re exclusive then they’re not friends with benefits.

The one clear defining feature of a relationship is that both people agree it is a relationship - the rest is just details such as what you call each other etc.

So this isn’t a relationship because he doesn’t want one.

I think he’s been honest with you and is just treading water. If you’re happy with that then crack on but don’t confuse it with a relationship, because it’s not.

Well for starters I know my DH will be there for me if I get sick. I know he will support me when I'm feeling down. We talk about growing older together and what we want our retirement to look like. We're raising children together. Basically, we've promised each other permanence. We're in each other's lives for the long haul, not just 'good enough for now'.

If you don't want any of that then that's fine, of course. Keep seeing this man. But if you want something long term then you need to move on.

Do you want to get married and have children? If you do, ask him if he does too.

If you’re happy to carry on exactly as you are, then do that. No one here is going to stop you. You just seem to want more from this than he does. Has he ever had a girlfriend?

But he won't even say he's in a relationship with you, why do you think that is?

I went back once, after I’d left him for another man.

Yes you are in a relationship. But what you should be asking is what kind of relationship?

It sounds like what he means is it's not committed to any loyalty or to any future and he's able to opt out at any point without guilt of having indicated it was more, as as when he chooses.

Which is fine if you are fine with that type of relationship.

Sounds appalling to me.

Why do you think it is that he’s so reluctant to admit that you are in a relationship (sort of)?

You can’t even tell if you are in a relationship with him so neither do you really.

He has commitment phobia. If someone else comes along along he'll be off and you won't see him for dust. Take the initiative and get rid of him now, you deserve better.

What do you mean by a relationship OP? I have a relationship with my friends, my boss, my family and my boyfriend... they're all types of 'relationship' with a dynamic and rules/ boundaries etc. So yes, by that definition you have a relationship.

Many people see a 'relationship' with someone they're exclusively sleeping with as a step towards meeting their friend group and meeting their family, being a 'couple' in those people's eyes, then living together, having children, marriage, growing old together and supporting each other as they grow older... it doesn't sound as though he sees you becoming that person to him.

I know he’d been there if I was ill. I said in the OP that he’s extremely supportive. We talk about plans together years into the future. I’m not sure what I would want him to promise me other than what he’s already doing.

I don’t want children. I’m indifferent to marriage.

He has, in his early 20s. He broke up with her because he didn’t enjoy being in a relationship.

Well you're not in a relationship in any meaningful sense if one person out of two alleges they're not in one.

He wants all the good things about being with someone without the commitment. Anyone that goes out with someone but won't call it a relationship is not serious. So you're wasting your time in a big way with this one.

If he’s saying you’re not in a relationship despite everything, then it’s highly likely that he’s having the girlfriend experience with you while keeping his options open.

that means he can flirt with other women and tell you that you have no right to complain.

if I were you I’d stop having sex with him until he starts giving you the respect you deserve

Certainly they often are! It’s for many people a way of having easy enjoyable sex with a friend, so you don’t have to go out looking for it, know you’re not shagging someone riddled with STD, or with incompatible kinks. I was ‘faithful’ to both my longterm FWBs, in that I wasn’t having sex with other people. The trade off was that if either of us entered a relationship, there was no commitment to the FWB. It ended, with no questions asked or ire. The first time, he ended it after a couple of happy, unproblematic years to enter a relationship with a woman he stayed married to for 16 years, the mother of his kids. The second one, I ended things to enter a relationship with my now -DH. I got married with two witnesses, but both FWBs attended my big wedding party and we’re still in touch. Both were positive, friendly, unproblematic ways of having sex without romantic commitment.

Why are you asking for opinions if you are happy?
He's said you are not a couple. That's quite something. He's very cocky and sure of you.

So you have a choice. Continue with this shit, or start seeing other people. No need to tell him, as you're not 'his'.

Well ok then, if you don't want more than what you two have at the moment, then sounds like there's no problem?

Anyone can opt out of any relationship at any time.

He is committed to loyalty, if my loyalty you mean being faithful.

So op - has he explicitly told you that you are in a relationship?

He’s those things to you, but what are you to him?
Stop crawling after a relationship with a man that’s made it clear he isn’t intrested in a relationship with you.
If a man wants you as a partner, he will very clearly let you know.

Absolutely they are. Many are.