To think this is beyond grim?

[stunnedbythis]

I was talking to my mum this afternoon, she mentioned that one of her friends is celebrating thirty years living with his boyfriend. It suddenly occurred to me to ask how old they were when they met because her friend doesn't look old enough, and she said he was 18 and his boyfriend was about 32. I knew there was an age gap, but I can't help but think this is really, really grim.

My mum go really defensive about this as she's very close to her friend and to some extent his boyfriend too, but she said things were very different 30 years ago and that it was her friend who did all the chasing (she's know this friend since he was about 16/17 as they worked in the same shop for a while). She said he met this man in a pub and they just hit it off.

My mum is in her 60s now and has a very different outlook, I asked her how she'd feel if one of my children turned 18 and started dating someone in their thirties, but all she could say is "its different now". How is it different?? What am I missing?

There's nothing grim about it at all. They were both adults. It's nobody else's business although I would congratulate them on their 30-year relationship.

BTW about people hanging around with younger people, I met my best friend who is twelve years younger than me when I was 30. That was 30 years ago.

Came here to say exactly this. Its very common in the gay community and unsure why it would be a problem? Obviously no abuse happened. And people of the same age can and do have horrible abusive relationships? So... Whats the issue?

Puzzled by comments that homosexuality was taboo and hidden 30 years ago. It was 1996 FFS!

Its not common in the gay community, its just common amongst men!

you could be drinking in pubs from 14

Not alcohol you couldn't, at least not legally. 14 years was the age you were allowed to be in a pub at all, and you had to be accompanied by an adult. Since 1995, it's 14 minutes. I would have said 14 seconds but you'd have to give birth in the pub for that to be true 🤪

I think it varied massively from one community, profession, neighbourhood, group of friends etc to another. I was working in a large firm of accountants in the late 1980s and I can't remember a single openly gay member of staff. There were one or two I wondered about but they had obviously decided it was best not to be out, at work anyway. It was almost unknown for any professional sportsman or sportswoman to be openly gay, especially in football. Very few politicians were out. Even amongst actors and musicians, who had always been exceptionally tolerant and accepting, there were a lot of people who kept their sexuality a secret. Still are. Not many Hollywood A listers have ever managed to maintain that status after coming out.

We've come a long way since the 90s, and a good thing too, but even now there's a lot of homophobia.

There was plenty of hidden homosexuality in 1996.

There will still be plenty now in families with deeply traditional religious and cultural views.

I am puzzled by all the people who think homosexuality was widely accepted in the mid90s. I can only assume those posters are very young or had the good fortune to live in places like London or Brighton where it was more liberal.

Just look at some of the key dates on the road to equality below. Think about the people around, who would have still held prejudices, even if it was no longer a criminal act. During the era that the younger man was at school, section 28 was firmly still in place. I recall my father's horror at the idea of it being repealed (he was one of those bigots). I was serving in the forces when the ban was lifted; that was not a popular move with most young soldiers. It took until 2010 for the Equality Act and true protection. That is barely 15 years ago, and just because some things are now legal/illegal, prejudice is not eliminated.

Regardless of all this, if you are a minority, whose dating options are limited to that minority, age is likely the least of your worries. A lot of people still held the view that being gay was a choice that you could be indoctrinated into, and out of.

I am not gay, but at 18 in the early 90s, i dated a 32 year old man. No one cared. My parents would have been far more disturbed if I had come home with a girlfriend.

1885: Labouchere Amendment made "gross indecency" between men a crime, leading to convictions like Oscar Wilde.
1967: Sexual Offences Act decriminalized private homosexual acts between men over 21 in England and Wales.
1980/1982: Decriminalization extended to Scotland and Northern Ireland respectively.
1988: Section 28 introduced, banning local authorities from promoting homosexuality, later repealed in 2003.
2000: Ban on gay, lesbian, and bisexual people serving in the armed forces was lifted.
2001: Age of consent for gay/bi men lowered to 16, matching the heterosexual age of consent.
2002: Adoption and Children Act allowed same-sex couples to adopt.
2004: Civil Partnership Act granted same-sex couples the same legal rights as marriage, and the Gender Recognition Act passed.
2010: Equality Act 2010 harmonized anti-discrimination laws.
2013/2014: Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 legalised same-sex marriage in England/Wales (2014) and Scotland (2014), followed by Northern Ireland in 2020.

They're obviously happy and anyway what's it got to do with you?!

Well Liverpool and Manchester must have been the exception on under age drinking. I.D wasn't asked for. My DD, born 1985 didn't go into pubs until 16 years old, that's was the early 2000s. I.D wasn't a thing until much later.

Thirty years later and they are still happy, even though the 18 year old is now 48. Doesn’t that show it was about more than just an ‘old’ bloke fancying a younger one?

The person you're quoting was being sarcastic.

'Couldn't legally' and 'couldn't' are not the same thing.

Yes, it was illegal to drink in pubs under 18, but it was also extremely common for it to happen. I turned 14 in 1990 and was going to the pub from 15-16ish onwards and was literally never asked for ID. Same with all my friends. And frankly, when a bunch of 16-year-old girls are dressed up and drinking, they don't look or behave any differently from a bunch of 25-year-olds. Men in their 20s who chatted to us genuinely weren't being predatory at all - we all just chatted as equals.

Oh, I see; you don't like him, so looking for 'grim' things to disapprove of.

I didn't date him but after finishing my A levels I stayed friends with one of my teachers who was 33 at the time! He wrote to me at uni. At the time didn't seem weird or predatory in the slightest. I really enjoyed his letters and enjoyed writing back to him. Not everything has to be 'grim' and because the older person has dodgy ideas. When I was 30 I had some good friends who were 18/19 because of the nature of our work. In fact aged 34 I met my lovely DH who at the time was 22. Lots of people pulled a face like you're pulling. We're still together 16 years later. Would I date a 22 year old now? Christ of course not, but at the time we were both in the same life phase, single, no children, travelling. Would I advise someone to do this? No probably not. But I certainly wouldn't judge so put your judgy pants away. Thirty years is lovely. Well done to that couple.

I have a group of friends from a company I used to work at. I started working there 13 years ago. Currently the ages in our friendship group range from 30 to 65, some of them would have been around 18 when we started working together.

i assume in your opinion we shouldn’t be friends because we’re not all the same age?

I agree that things were different.

Only a few decades ago many people were engaged in their teens and married by early 20’s.

Charles was 32 when he became engaged to Diana, 19. I don’t think that would happen again.

What is grim about a happy relationship?

Sorry,why is it grim?

A 32 year old man with an 18 year old boy is detestable.

Read the thread. Apart from anything else, then and now, an 18yo is an adult, not a boy.

I was 32 when I met my partner who was 18. We've been together 28 years.

Why are you excusing predators?

We'll have to agree to disagree. The two men involved have been together for 30 years. If the older one had turned out to be predatory, the younger one would probably have done something about it by now or confided in his friend about difficulties in the relationship.

My husband is six years older than me and I was 19 when we first got together well over 40 years ago. I can assure you there was nothing predatory going on then or since.