DD’s birthday was an utter disaster

[bendmeoverbackwards]

It’s DD’s 19th birthday today. She’s ASD and has been out of education for a few years.

Last couple of birthdays have been disappointing to her and I know this one brought up a lot of emotion not just about birthdays but also her situation in general.

I asked her a few weeks ago if she wanted to see a particular show and a meal at a steak place. She just said no but gave no other suggestions. I then asked last week of she wanted just a meal out and where - no response. So I decided to book a local restaurant just in case as Saturday nights get busy, with the option of cancelling if she didn’t want to.

When I told her, she wasn’t happy and said she couldn’t do it now because I’d chosen it (autistic brain). I asked where else she’d like to go but didn’t get a reply. I suggested a takeaway, took hours of questions about this, she didn’t see a takeaway as a birthday celebration. She eventually decided on pizza.

I also got her a beautiful personalised cake. Last year for her 18th, I got her a nice chocolate cake with her name on but it didn’t have the same personalisation as her older sister’s 18th birthday cake (which was celebrated in lockdown so I pushed the boat out a bit). Also the board base was accidentally thrown out when there was a tiny bit of chocolate left on it. She complained about this for months. I said I would buy her an extra cake (cheapy supermarket cake) but I forgot.

Now she says she can’t have this year’s cake because of the lack of the other one and it would be in the wrong order (autistic brain again).

Choosing presents is also difficult for her so I chose a few small gifts and paid in £50 birthday money into her account. She didn’t like this either, she wanted to choose her own presents (but from past experience she takes ages to choose, months and months, so I thought I’d make it easier by giving her money).

Written down, I realise she sounds like a spoilt brat. But I didn’t do some things that I said I would eg buy her an additional cake and take her for a belated birthday meal (from last year).

The evening ended with her sobbing in the kitchen and me losing my temper 😢

She doesn’t open up to him though. They used to be so close, she was a real daddy’s girl as a young child. It’s quite hurtful for Dh now but I’ve tried to reassure him that their relationship will improve.

I’m not an expert on autism by any means. But the OP’s daughter is able to child mind, and is dismissive of what she sees as below her uni courses/similar.
So is this autism or bad behaviour? Because to me it seems like the latter.
And the OP is also a person deserving of a quality of life and her own mental health. And DD3 was unfortunately very badly impacted by Covid, but the Op seems worn out suggesting things to her. So what is the Op to do? Have her live at home for the rest of her life? Fair enough if that was needed, but is it? And is it actually in DD’s best interests? If DD is depressed about her situation now, how will she feel without change in ten years?

OP my daughter is a bit younger than yours but we have a very similar dynamic going on with her and her dad.

Right down to she can rub along if I'm not there but she's so hateful to him. They also used to be vey close, it's so hurtful to him.

Thing is relationships do change. They ebb and flow. I appreciate that may not have been the case with your older DC, but it isn’t abnormal for things to go through a strained period. Does DH do anything with her one to one, whether it be going shopping, for a walk, etc? It may be that the distance they are feeling is actually part of the reason she is overly enmeshed with you - because she is fearful of losing you too - rather than a case of her pushing him out in preference for you?

As I mentioned above around 14 YP start to separate from their same sex parent and seek out the opposite sex one. This is about learning to understand how we operate independently and where we build up a model of relationships with the opposite sex - both in terms of how e operate in the workplace, socially etc but also in informing our model of how opposite sex ‘romantic’ relationships operate. There is a great book called ‘Raising Girls’ that explains this better, but it is really important that you, as a family, create opportunities for them to foster/deepen their realtionship.

She doesn't have a good relationship with either of you though. She bullies you and ignores her father. If you step back and let him parent and you back him up and follow his lead then that gives a chance for that to change.

Genuine question. Why do you think their relationship will improve and why do you feel the need to reassure him? This sounds like wishful thinking. Obviously, you want the relationship to improve but what evidence can you possibly have? Why do you feel the need to try and fix everything?
How can it possibly improve when you validate her negative behaviour towards him (“I’m her safe space. She opens up to me” etc)?
Isn’t this just another set of false premises propping up the whole unviable edifice?

Hopefully OP’s DD is not one of the cohort I mentioned, but I had just wanted to point out that being cognitively able doesn’t mean you can’t have very serious issues (often MH related in this autistic group).

You said
‘DD doesn’t sound like she is severely autistic in which case I’d be much more understanding’
which shows some misunderstanding of what disability can sometimes look like in this group.

I don’t know how badly OP’s DD is affected. She is very able in lots of ways, but like a pp I suspect she may have an undiagnosed MH condition as well as autism and may need to access support for that too.

I think the traditonal stereotype about autism was that individuals were very cognitively able, generally far above average. But struggled in other ways. So I think your point is well understood generally.

OP also thinks her DD has MH issues, and is likely depressed which seems very likely.

But OP has offered her daughter counselling, educational opportunities etc.

And some point, autism or not, MH issues or not, you have to ask yourself whether you are helping a person or hindering them.

Stepping away can actually be kind.

Because I think sometimes time and maturity help. Dd is very immature for her age and this will improve in time. But I think the mistake I have made is to use her immaturity as an excuse when I should be treating her more like an adult to encourage that growth.

I think you need to clearly say that the conversation about the cake is over and if it's going to continue being such a cause of conflict and stress for her that you won't be doing cakes going forward

I’ve tried to reassure him that their relationship will improve

Again, why is it you are always feeling you have to fix things for everyone?

I know your thread is long now, but perhaps at some point, re-read through the full thread, and pinpoint every single time you mention taking responsibility for a situation.

Fair enough I’m sure you’re right that things will improve. But I reckon you have a role to play in not allowing him to be shut out. If she does the whole “I’m talking to mum” thing do you challenge that? I’m already facing this with my toddler who tries to lay down the law about what things are just for her and me and not her dad. I have to say things like “Your dad is part of the family and he’s allowed to talk/help you get dressed/sit on the sofa just as much as I am.” 🤣 I realise things are much more complex with your family but do you feel able to say “Yes we’re talking but dad is allowed to join the conversation.”

I think the traditonal stereotype about autism was that individuals were very cognitively able, generally far above average. But struggled in other ways. So I think your point is well understood generally.

I don’t think it is. Autistic people without an intellectual disability are usually not well above average cognitively (though a small minority are). In fact they’re more likely to have conditions like dyslexia or ADHD that can affect their learning, as well as poor executive function and emotional immaturity which also make things more difficult.

Regarding struggling in other ways, I think people are aware that possible social awkwardness, being ‘quirky’, sensory difficulties etc are associated with autism, but perhaps not aware of how much more likely this group is to have serious MH difficulties. Not just anxiety and depression, but OCD (which can be hugely debilitating though the term is often loosely bandied about), bipolar disorder, schizophrenia. All are more prevalent in the autistic community.

I notice OP that you said it was tempting to do the whole cake thing again. This genuinely shocked me. Can you not see that this is utterly unwinable? And not about cake????

Also please do start another thread!

I’m agreeing with you. I said the “traditional sterotype”.

Regardless of what people are aware of generally, the Op says her Dd is depressed & has tried to get her help for it.

At some point as I said austism for not, MH or not something has to give. The OP can’t continue to like this.

One thing I have noticed on these threads is that some posters have this idea that a diagnosis of autism is being used to excuse poor behaviour and it then becomes in their minds a choice between an autism diagnosis and poor behaviour. This isn't the case. An autism diagnosis doesn't mean that a child/young person can’t also be badly behaved. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

IMO, the OP’s DD is quite obviously behaving in a controlling way over the birthday cake, I see this behaviour in our adopted DD1, who is also ND. An ND diagnosis doesn't mean that the OP’s DD shouldn't be called out on her behaviour, far from it.

I think the issue is…is it bad behaviour or is it something more like OCD. Why is she insisting the cakes are in the ‘right order’? It seems…odd.

It’s no way to live, either way, for both OP and DD, but the means of addressing the situation might look a bit different depending on the cause.
At the very least it can help the parent when they understand why the (adult) child is behaving the way they are.

I’m not suggesting for a minute that OP needs to live like this, but just the assumption that it’s all ‘bad behaviour’. Yes the two can co-exist, but is that what’s really going on regarding the cake situation?

Do you know why DD needs to have things in the right order OP?

I completely agree with this, of course it's not about the cake it's about control ultimately. But there is also a significant enough pattern of behaviour here that, to me anyway, warrants further assessment and I think that should be the priority. At the very least the dd needs support and strategies to navigate situations and op and her husband support to equip her with those strategies and bolster them. But if they're at such an impasse where the relationship is floundering then I think it's fair for op to concede with the overall goal of getting dd to an assessment. Ultimately op knows her dd better than any of us on here and can judge this on her own gut instinct what's the 'right' thing to do to do that. It could just be control as a way to manage, it could also be ODD or OCD etc but without assessment by a professional there's really no way to know. But I think that if nothing else, further assessment might be validating enough for op to help her tackle challenging behaviours knowing what exactly she's working with and having guidance and support in her back pocket.

Again, I think there is probably some nuance here. My DD1 has serious issues around food; she has a very limited diet. But she can be controlling, liking something one day and then saying that there is something wrong with it the next (but she can’t say what if is).

I think op has become so close and caught up in things that she can’t see wood for trees. Her gut has been to placate and pander and let dd grow up a bit and she’s now a 19 yr old who doesn’t leave the house or do anything.
So the cake situation, dd has had 2 cakes and yet op was genuinely contemplating buying 2 more in the ‘right order’ Op has now seen how ridiculous an idea that was.

But there is also a significant enough pattern of behaviour here that, to me anyway, warrants further assessment and I think that should be the priority.

In an ideal world maybe, but the OP can't give her DD assessments or strategies that DD doesn't want for herself. DD is an adult and that ship has sailed. So it's not worth making it a priority. The OP needs support herself, to manage her own reactions to DD's behaviour in ways that wont make matters worse.

further assessment might be validating enough for op

Yes, the OP wants external validation for her parenting. It's what she has wanted from us. But assessing DD isn't on the cards right now. The OP needs to look at ways to keep herself calm and some strategies to manage DD within DD's apparent limitations that don't require professional assessments.

Family counselling could be good for the three of them, or failing that, after what she said about her DH some professional parenting support just for herself and DH would help them move forward as equal parents, and that will improve outcomes for DD.

Is there a part of you, OP, that secretly enjoys being the one who is her ‘safe person’?

OP’s been clear that dd doesn’t accept her diagnosis and isn’t interested in seeking any further diagnosis, medication or therapy. Shes’s 19 so it is her decision.
If the dd wants to enrol at college and not tick I’ve got a disability box it’s her choice.
Realistically op can only look at support for herself and change how she responds.

I think you are right about this. But I also think this is all the more reason to step back a bit and let DH and DD3 establish their relationship without too much intervention.
I completely understand the desire to fix things. I’ve done it myself. But in this instance, setting good boundaries, being consistent, backing DH and stepping back a bit seems like the sensible option. Apart from anything else you must be exhausted.