To be the most shocked about the women possibly involved in it all

[Whereareallthegoodpeople]

With Epstein.

Men, i’m pretty much sick of at this point in my late 40’s, adore my Ddad and Dh is one of the good ones, but thinking back to being young and leering men and uncomfortable and scary situations.
But, rumours of women possibly being involved-obviously vile GM, but a supposed supermodel, JE’s personal assistants and women that seemed to work for him, reports of possibly owning adoption agencies etc. If all true, how on earth could women see children and young girls being abused and hurt and actively make that happen?? Where were all the safe people, why did no one notice and say or do anything?

So many people will have been complicit. It really beggars belief.

It really does, it’s actually making me question mankind as a whole, where were the protectors, why was no one shocked or trying to help? Were they scared, didn’t care??

Internalised misogyny?

Which supermodel, allegedly? Do you mean Naomi Campbell?

???

I’ve read so many stories this week about someone, obviously could be bs

I think there's a few levels to something like this. You'll have people who are equally bad as him who are wilfully evil (because like attracts like), you'll have people who don't see what they don't want to see (which can be actually a very common reaction unfortunately and is why so much institutional abuse exists- people either don't want to believe that something so awful could happen or they feel too powerless to change it so they go along for self preservation), and then you'll have plenty of people who he'll have groomed because he's been charismatic and manipulative. Grooming and abuse of children usually starts with grooming the adults around them and someone like him will have needed a 'fan base' if you like who give him credibility and influence and they won't necessarily have seen the truth.

It's hard to know how deep the tentacles of this actually run so I'm personally trying to wait and see what's going to happen because I do think the rumour mill is running at the same time alongside the facts so I don't feel like it's clear enough yet. If the supermodel you're talking about is CT then while I know she's controversial, I don't think she or her husband were actually ever mentioned in the files and she's explicitly denied ever knowing him or taking anything to do with him so I'm not sure I buy that one until I see actual evidence to the contrary. Happy to stand corrected but that's as far as I'm aware of.

I think it was to keep them complicit; the kids who bought in other kids felt bad so they wouldn't tell and I imagine it was the same with other women.
Fergie I suspect was getting compensation for JE giving her husband girls and was basically bribing him with what she knew for £££.

So much sexual harm and violence is perpetrated by men so being shocked at a female perpetrator is not completely strange in fairness. Although obviously women can be predatory as well.

Great post

Some women feel their personal interests are best met in the service of men. Obviously to go this far is an extreme and thankfully rare occurance. But the driving force, the feeling that you're safer appeasing the stronger force than protecting the weak, that you gain more from allying with the winning side rather than being another of their victims isn't uncommon.

I was abused by my mother. It’s much less common than men doing horrible things, of course but I think it’s more common than people realise. People like to think it’s just men doing these things but it really isn’t. I think abusive women are often just better at hiding it. My Mum was very upper middle class, organised high profile literary events and was well known in certain circles. She was also an alcoholic and schizophrenic. People don’t ever want to admit multiple things can be true about the same person.

Exactly.

It’s more shocking as I see us as the safer sex, especially in regards to children

Some of the women who recruited other girls/women, like Virginia Giurffre, were also victims. It happens very often that the victim becomes a perpetrator. It gives leverage to the one at the top of the chain (Epstien). I suppose we will never know for sure if all the women who aided him had previously been victims.

People working in Harrods were complicit in snaring young women for Al Fayed to abuse, apparently for not much reward for themselves other than perhaps just keeping their jobs. According to one report, managers went to a young woman's home and threatened her father because she went to the police (who apparently likewise thought it was all ok).

Yes this is true

Do we think GM was a victim/brainwashed?

This is insane

I think GM found someone like her dad, who I also suspect would have had a parade of girls on tap. I think she placated him and became his 'helper' then did the same with JE who she understood thanks to her dad.

So fucked up

GM depended on him for money, and got access through him to the top levels of society she had been used to before she lost everything through the death and crimes of her father.

And all of this^ this "model" of abuse if you want to call it that is actually really important to predators because it preys on people's vulnerability, guilt and gaslights them to create a huge amount of control. It gives him a load of flying monkeys which were originally victims he'd broken to then go on and increase his reach that are then so complicit they don't know how to come forward or extract themselves. It's disgusting but also very clever and manipulative.

It doesn’t excuse her actions, but her relationship with her father was outright creepy and I reckon JE basically took his place in her life

It’s the women like Kathy Ruemmler (now head lawyer for Goldman Sachs but will be stepping down) I don’t get. She didn’t need his money yet still fawned over him.

Women attracted to rich powerful evil men are not carers. They’re just as bad as the men.