To be the most shocked about the women possibly involved in it all

[Whereareallthegoodpeople]

With Epstein.

Men, i’m pretty much sick of at this point in my late 40’s, adore my Ddad and Dh is one of the good ones, but thinking back to being young and leering men and uncomfortable and scary situations.
But, rumours of women possibly being involved-obviously vile GM, but a supposed supermodel, JE’s personal assistants and women that seemed to work for him, reports of possibly owning adoption agencies etc. If all true, how on earth could women see children and young girls being abused and hurt and actively make that happen?? Where were all the safe people, why did no one notice and say or do anything?

A lot of these women are probably just ruthless. They're less likely to be sexual predators themselves, but if there's something in it for them they don't care. I think men and women are equally ruthless.

It would still never cross your mind to do what she did though would it

I don't know. I find the relationship between her and Epstien odd. They were in a romantic relationship, then they weren't, yet she stuck by his side aiding his abuse. As far as I know she never had another relationship, she has stayed quiet about him, she looks infatuated with him in some of the pictures. She grew up with a father who mistreated and sexualised women so she would be vulnerable to grooming. I think the difference with her and VG though is that GM was already well into adulthood when she started recruiting girls.

It’s frightening

Do we think GM was a victim/brainwashed?
I cant speak for everyone else but I absolutely do not think she was brainwashed.

I haven’t read up on if, but will

What did she do?

It’s bizarre as it seemed some women fell for him and he was able to pull the wool over so many people’s eyes. Originally a maths teacher who was fired and then fired from his second job, who the hell was this guy

Epstein certainly seems to have had a way of manipulating people. Look at the wide range of people who socialised with him (including Noam Chomsky). The initial attraction may have been his financial expertise, but he also inspired devotion (if the messages in the birthday book are genuine). He had some kind of magnetism/charisma.

Not abusers, but how many women do you know who would stand by and let children be abused and possibly more and possibly actively provide this? (Discounting the abused girls/women themselves as previously discussed)

I just wonder if it was just he had something on them. Secrets to blackmail with, favours to call or plain old played on their greed as he was a manipulator? The Ruemmler woman accepted gifts from him didn't she? So greed for her.

The whole thing is just so nasty.

By her father, I would guess. An abusive parent pre-conditions a person, as outlined by PPs. Her father wasn't your average abuser, either, he was incredibly powerful and domineering. To 'succeed' with a parent like that creates a character and skillset not widely required in everyday life. She'd have needed a similar type of dominant male to make sense of her life 😢

Such an odd relationship. People have said they assumed maybe they were together and going to get married, but on the other hand, weren’t really sure *What they had

Yes, it’s fascinating

Probably the same as the number of men.

Edit: I don't think I know any ruthless psychopaths.

What was the story with her mother?

They seemed to be long term friends. She advised him on how to pushback against the media scrutiny of his original conviction. He allegedly rang her after he was arrested in 2019. He bought her expensive gifts like an Hermes bag but she’s a hotshot lawyer so not exactly skint. She knew the kind of ‘massages’ he liked as it’s referenced in the emails.

Do you honestly think that?

@Whereareallthegoodpeople Men, i’m pretty much sick of at this point in my late 40’s, adore my Ddad and Dh is one of the good ones

"One of the good ones" makes it sound as though it's a small specific group. Clearly, the overwhelming majority of men are not abusive and do not rape.

If all true, how on earth could women see children and young girls being abused and hurt and actively make that happen?? Where were all the safe people, why did no one notice and say or do anything?

All the other posts are overcomplicating this.

The answer is money. It's that simple.

People will go along with unethical, questionable, immoral, or illegal things that their boss tells them to do because we all need a job and we all need money.

Someone being a victim does not mean that they cannot also be a perpetrator. This is true for women and men. Some of the most prolific male offenders were victims of abuse in childhood, yet they generally aren’t considered to be less responsible for their later actions because of this.

Similarly, ‘bad’ people can also be victims.

There’s the old adage about poison being a woman’s weapon, whereas a man’s weapon is violence. As a general rule, women don’t have the same access to power as men, physically, or institutionally, and a dangerous woman is unlikely to present in the same way as a dangerous man (on that note, a psychopathic women will present differently to a psychopathic male, yet understanding of female psychopathy is poorly developed because the majority of research has been on men). Not being dangerous in the same ways as men is not the same thing as being safe.

Yes. I'm not talking about the abusers, but people who convince themselves they're not doing wrong when it suits them. Look at Nazi Germany.

But then you have to wonder if someone like him has the capacity to form healthy relationships. He's very possibly psychopathic or sociopathic. So a "romantic" relationship with the likes of GM would only interest him for so long as it served him and control probably served him better than anything else that other people would expect and want in an otherwise healthy relationship. I've worked with a few women who've ended up as flying monkeys for highly abusive men before and the amount of control that went on behind the scenes was scary and can make women believe they are extremely dependent on someone like that. Or perhaps as someone who's been vulnerable at points, this gave her the opportunity to feel in control herself by harming others which is also a not that uncommon victim response to childhood trauma especially. It's very difficult to know from afar. But in my mind it's like a cult dynamic where he's been the cult leader. I think similar psychologies will apply here.

I think more than you'd think. Just look at all the mother and baby homes in Ireland and all the different institutions that have seen significantly harmful cultures take hold in the caring industry or nurseries etc. Women have a history of being quite actively abusive in those settings.

So strange, the influence he seemed to have over people

The only real report’s I’ve read of people being very wary/disliking him instantly were from M gates and another man (forget his name-perimenopause!) who seemed very affected by a visit/meeting at his house. He talked about the way the house was set up, the long dining table draped with an American flag, women draped over him. He described Epstein as not being a person as such, but a construction of something, it’s very interesting

Rose West sexually exploited, used, abused, and was involved in killing young girls over years and it wasn’t because of money alone.

Fucked in the head + evil / bad person + money.

It's everywhere people turn a blind eye- not just in epsteins circles- the grooming gangs enquiry revealed a chils of 12 was SA with a bottle that broke inside her, the NHS nurses patched her off and sent her on her way.... 12 with internal glass injuries and no one thought to raise a concern. I hsve had enough of the human race now