Despite his villainous behaviour, anyone feel a teeny bit sorry for Andrew?

[busymomtoone]

Before I get totally flamed, I despise his attitude, and the things he appears to have done - particularly the subsequent lying and apparent determination to shield/ hide misdemeanours. However, seeing the photo of his release today looking a broken man after such huge public downfall , plus thinking of him going back to an empty house on his birthday with no family support - even though I initially felt he deserves every indignity and consequence - there’s still a teeny part of me that just can’t help feeling just a little bit sorry for him. If it’s true that he was taken to a brothel at age 11 , whilst it would in no way excuse abusing others , it means he has also been a victim of abuse. Additionally it seems the Queen and his entourage have never ever said no to him in his whole life- so to reach his 7th decade before any consequences hit makes me question how resilient he will be able to be. Obviously main sympathies are always rightly with any victims , but even the most hardened and perpetual criminals often retain family support, he seems to have nobody. ( albeit if his own making ) or am I just being too soft?!

There’s a lot of excuse making on this thread. It’s his mother’s fault. It’s his father’s fault. It’s Charles’ fault.

If a grown man decides to misconduct themselves in a public office, they’re the only one to blame. If a grown man associates themselves with a sex trafficker and paedophile, in full knowledge they’re a sex trafficker and paedophile, that’s also their own fault.

He’s entitled, arrogant, and as thick as pig shit. A useful idiot for manipulators like Epstein.

A definite no. Absolutely not.

Thank you. I confess I hadn’t heard of her before but I’ve just Googled her. It sounds like she’s had a blind spot where AMW is concerned. Maybe she’s rethinking her support for him?

That was meant to be in reply to @Ebok1990 re Lady Victoria Hervey.

It’s interesting that the OP felt such a need to make this post on Thursday evening, but hasn’t been back since. Who are you OP? What’s the agenda? As if we can’t guess.

I hope you’re hearing loud and clear, the vast majority have zero sympathy, so all the PR staff available won’t help. This isn’t a RF member having an affair or making an inappropriate comment etc. This is a lot more serious. There is no way back for Andrew. People don’t want him and will not be changing their minds on this.

I think the RF are a horribly toxic dysfunctional family behind closed doors. Look at what Diana and Harry had to say.
The presumption in the uk is innocent until proven guilty, AMW has not been found guilty of anything (yet). He has been arrested on suspicion of what? Assisting insider trading? Not good but not heinous. I think he is stupid, arrogant and hedonistic, but i suspect they all are really.

With all the evidence against Andrew, I doubt many actually presume he is innocent though. We know that rich people are often protected and untouchable, it doesn’t mean they’re innocent.

What evidence?

Have you not been watching the news? Emails passing on government information to a known sex trafficker within minutes of receiving it. That's just for starters

It's all coming out now. Better late than never.

Unfortunately Andrew MBW has not only tarnished his name and family but also his country. He and his odd ex wife thought they were oh so important clever clogs mixing with rich and powerful people, when they have merely been useful idiots to them. But then, in hierarchical institutions such as the RF it's too easy to suppress any dissenting voices of reason. This ultimately has become their downfall. It was reported this morning that King Charles had been informed about Andrew’s inappropriate conduct during his time as trade envoy by a whistleblower. It appears that what we have seen so far may be only the beginning, with more serious revelations likely to follow.

What a fool Andrew has been and shame on those who turned a blind eye and enabled his atrocious legacy.

Absolutely not in the slightest. He needs to be shown the full extent of the law and I’m genuinely looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. It’s all his victims I feel sorry for.

She was a girl when she was abused by him and others.

Did Andrew abuse children? I know he had sex with trafficked women, but children? Where is the evidence of this?

I do feel that the outrage rings a bit hollow when you consider the countless men - the 'ordinary' sons, husbands, boyfriends - who use prostitutes, at home and abroad, the stag dos where men pick up sex workers, the sex tourism in Germany, Amsterdam, the far east, red light districts here, the calls in the UK for the legalisation of brothels. Many of those women and girls will have been trafficked, are abuse victims, are addicts funding their habits. There's a widespread culture of male sexual entitlement and exploitation that doesn't begin and end with a monstrous sex ring run by a billionaire financier for the benefit of his rich famous friends. So I would never excuse or feel any pity for Andrew, but I do see his behaviour as part of a larger pattern.

The flag waving, bowing and genuflecting proles who toady around the royals have given them the impression that being royal is equivalent to being a god.
The proles upheld and enabled the system that created the monster.

I dont have any strong feelings about him. Most people in his position accused of a serious crime would be genuinely worried about their future. Yes he is going to be a social pariah. However he is not going to find himself homeless and having to use a food bank. His brother the king will always provide for him, if only in a minimal way. Most people who break the law suffer huge material loss.

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Wrt his being the Queen's favourite child, isn't it often the case that the supposed favourite child position is given to the child the mother is most worried about?

Absolutely not with my siblings. Quite the.opposite in fact!

Well judging by what’s happening now, she had reason didn’t she ? If the favouritism including indulging his outrageous sense of entitlement then they’re all responsible.

The RF have effectively hung Andrew out to dry and backed away from him. I understand that that is to protect their reputation but you have to wonder to what extent they knew about the stuff that’s being uncovered now.

Information coming out of the Epstein files describes youngsters of both sexes - some as young as 14 - being trafficked. In Florida in 2008, Epstein was convicted of procuring a minor for prostitution and soliciting. When he died in prison in 2019, he was awaiting trial on federal charges of sex trafficking of minors.

Regardless of whether he had sex with minors, if Andrew had sex with girls who were trafficked then he himself is guilty of trafficking. That’s the law - and according to the king himself, no-one is above it.

Reports in the news over the weekend of former prime minister Gordon Brown passing information to various police forces, suggesting that AMW used military air bases to facilitate Epstein’s private jet, and appropriated military aircraft to meet Epstein. All at the tax payers expense. If it’s true, the entitlement is off the scale.

I like Gordon Brown, and better late than never, I suppose, but I don't understand why he didn't do this at the time. If anyone could have, he could, surely?

Yes, Andrew is almost certainly guilty of having sex with trafficked women - but that is not the same as saying he sexually abused children.

Unfortunately there is evidence in the Epstein files