My head is spinning. Am I in the wrong here or is he?!

[Whataa]

If I say to DP anything with the word ‘if’ in it, he says im threatening him.

Examples are, i’ll say ‘if we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work and we’ll have to cancel these suggested dates.’

the context is always dp dragging his feet with something and causing a knock on effect of stress in my life and for DS as nothing is organised. Is it threatening for me to say this in response?

Sounds like he finds being made aware of consequences threatening - he'd rather bury his head in the sand. You're doing nothing wrong but id stop being the grown-up and let him take accountability. He doesn't like you telling him what will happen if he doesn't make a decision. So don't tell him, and let him find out.

I think they're pointing out what will happen as a natural consequence. A threat is something that's nasty. 'If you don't pay me back, I'll be short this month' is a consequence, 'if you don't pay me back, I'll expose your secret to the world / punch you in the face' is a threat.

To be honest he sounds like an infuriating man child fucking about and then getting really defensive and accusing you of random made up shit when you get frustrated as a result of his shitty behaviour, so he doesn't need to focus on his behaviour. Like the type of man who accuses their partner of being 'controlling' when they aren't happy being left with their kids every night while the man swans off to his hobby, or the type of man who calls his partner a nag when she gets fed up of him swerving all his chores.

If he doesn't like the 'if' word, what does he actually want you to do. Asking him nicely to book time off doesn't work, pointing out that if he doesn't, doesn't work. How does he want you to approach it? mention it once and then mever again and end up going by yourself? Or calling his boss and doing it for him?

I guess you could frame it 'I'm concerned that we haven't booked our holiday yet. We really need to book it by the weekend to make sure we get the dates we want, please could you do it tomorrow so that we don't miss out'? (Rather than 'if you dont book tomorrow then we will miss out). Chat gpt probably has some ways of framing things you want to say in a more positive light. But I think I'd struggle to modify my natural way of speaking to pacify an over sensitive man baby so that he is shielded from perfectly normal speech in case it upsets him

Oh for heavens sake. Why is there such a palaver. If you want to go somewhere and he's just piss balling about with dates just book when is convenient to you and go anyway.

My partner didn't spend Xmas with me after I told him I'm got a great flight deal and did he want to come? He messed about , I booked flights, he got out priced so I went without him.

Strangely this year he seems to be more interested in plans

He sounds like he suffers from demand avoidance ……I would try “CAN we organise the holiday asap SO THAT WE don’t need to move the dates for work and WE WONT have to cancel these suggested dates…..this way your asking him the question and putting the emphasis on you both doing the decisions making together rather than you needing decisions from him to stop it all falling apart.

I’m a bit of two minds on this. My DH will sometimes start to nudge in what I feel like is a bit aggressive. By nudge he mentions it more than once when I’m already thinking about it. I’ve said similar and probably a bit meaner in the past.

then I realize he’s not in my head and doesn’t know what I haven’t told him.

Not saying it’s right or wrong just giving a perspective.

So what happens when you point out that it's not a threat, it\s a statement of fact? Will he be any happier if you don't give him any reminders and just go ahead and cancel?

Things like this can be down to the tone and delivery as much as the actual words themselves

This.

However in the end my DH and I separated. I just got too hard turning myself into a pretzel asking for what seemed from my side quite reasonable straight forward things. I think in hindsight we could have saved it if he had counselling earlier. However he squarely blames me so who knows.

The fact that he is trying to explain his feelings and internal response is a positive though.

Stop dancing to his (ridiculous) tune & do it back to him. Ie select a random commonly used turn of phrase and accuse him of treating you badly in some way every time he uses it.

"demand avoidance"?
Oh yes, that's bullshit for "being a belligerent twit" isnt it.

I would rephrase it going forward: ‘I have booked the holiday on the following dates and will assume that you are choosing not to come with us unless you also book the time off work. Can you confirm by x date whether you would like me to add you to the flight/hotel booking’. Or ‘I am taking the children to legoland on Saturday and leaving at 8am. We will assume you are not joining us if you are not ready to leave at that time.’ Etc.

No Ifs. No ‘threats’… just stated plan of action.

No one should have to remove the word "if" from their vocabulary just because their partner doesn't like to have any small demand put on him.

Certainly sounds like it from the latest update.

@Whataa Impossible to say, OP. The only way it would be possible to judge this one would be for someone to directly witness the conversations in person.

One possible scenario is that you frequently use a bullying tone and constantly shout at him which is having an impact on his well-being, causing him to associate specific sentence structures (like the use of 'if') with threats.

Another possible scenario is that you are not a bully, and you are speaking with a completely normal, relaxed, and approachable tone of voice. DP is dragging his feet and being lazy, and he is accussing you of being threatening to justify his laziness.

And then there are other scenarios...

No one can say which scenario is correct without directly witnessing the conversations.

I bet he doesn't whine about being threatened when he's given deadlines at work.

Try saying but instead.

Would you go on holiday without him? If you would, could you say I am planning to book the holiday by x date. These are dates I had in mind. Can you please check if this works for you? No reminders. Just ask when you come to book that the date is ok. If he says not sure, not checked looks like you are going by yourself. He moans, then point out he does not like ‘threatening’ so done it his way.

Was going to say much the same as @DrinkFeckArseBrick. "If..." is NOT usually a threat, just a statement of potential consequences. "If you don't stop the car I'm going to lamp you" is clearly a threat, but "If you don't stop you're going to hit that car" is a warning of what's likely to happen if ignored.

In this case, you aren't threatening that YOU will enact some horrible revenge on him if he doesn't sort the holiday, just explaining that if it's not sorted soon, certain negative things are likely to happen as a consequence, not because YOU did them to be nasty, but because that's how life/workplaces/holiday bookings work. That he's choosing to take these perfectly normal sorts of statements this way is entirely on him - and I bet he DOESN'T start mithering about feeling "threatened" if his boss/friend says something similar!

If anything, he's threatening YOU with this gaslighting and guilt-tripping behaviour - it's basically saying "If you try to make me do things when I don't want to (even for good reasons), I'll bully and guilt-trip you till you feel so bad you won't do it again". It sounds quite controlling and nasty.

Sounds like a petulant teenager. Shutting you down all the time and walking off when they don't like what you say. Just tell him what you're doing and it's up to him whether he joins in or not. If you're just talking about general arrangement s I find saying get to fuck works quite well.

@Whataa

@sprigatito has hit the nail right on the head. It's controlling behaviour. He's training you to never question him and never expect him to do anything. And the dragging his feet on everything is also a method of training you. It's probably training you to do everything yourself rather than expect him to do it. How long have you been with this guy? There aren't any real clues as to whether this is a long relationship or a short one.

'If' is not remotely threatening unless it's followed by, gee, an actual threat. What you are doing is explaining the effect of his inaction:

"If we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work etc etc etc" is NOT a threat.

"If we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work shoot you/leave you/kick the dog" IS a threat.

See the difference?

I can see how it comes across as threatening to him, but unless either the thing you've asked him to do or the consequence is unreasonable and out of the ordinary, it's really just a statement of fact and of cause and effect. "If you don't give me £ 100K by midnight tonight, you'll never see your dog again" is threatening, "If we don't book our holiday this week, we'll need to push the dates back" is not.

But I'd be less worried about how you're phrasing your requests that he do the things he's committed to doing and more worried about why he can't get them done in a reasonable time frame in the first place, and why he can't discuss either the larger problem or the immediate issue without shifting the blame to you.

@Whataa , your tone, register and vocabulary are not the issue. If you "corrected" each one, he'd find another one to hold against you.

You might as well please yourself.

I think you're on the wrong thread, though to be sure the OP's DH is a pain in the fundament.

my Dh was he same anti was so so stressful. I ended up in psychosis