My head is spinning. Am I in the wrong here or is he?!

[Whataa]

If I say to DP anything with the word ‘if’ in it, he says im threatening him.

Examples are, i’ll say ‘if we can’t organise the holiday asap then i will need to move the dates for work and we’ll have to cancel these suggested dates.’

the context is always dp dragging his feet with something and causing a knock on effect of stress in my life and for DS as nothing is organised. Is it threatening for me to say this in response?

2 questions, @Whataa :

• What do you get out of this relationship
• Whats stopping you/ what needs to happen for you to leave

Ah. Thanks 👍🏻

He is pushing on your last nerve. Yanbu, he is.

Tell him you find him controlling and coercive as his refusal to engage with planning family time has created an atmosphere in which you walk on eggshells, and his ongoing avoidance of commitment is creating anxiety and stress for you.

Because you can both use therapy talk to justify being a dick. But it would just be less work to organise you and the DC and forget the dead weight of a husband.

No it doesn’t make me unreasonable (not sure why it changed to me as this is the OPs
post). There are better ways to soeak to someone effectively.

I’m very reasonable thanks anyway…..

Why are you with such a controlling, manipulative arsehole?

its not ypu. It’s not a threat. I’d calmly explain the impact once more and then just decentre him. Just book other holidays or ones on your own, ones with friends and he can come to you with plans, then check your availability. The in between bit will make him understand the consequences of the actions.

Do you carry through the ‘ifs’?

He's right in a way as it is a threat of sorts. Depends a lot on how you're saying it too. But he's so fixated on the word 'threat' that he's missing the point of how his dithering is pushing.you to all.or nothing decisions.

You could try wording more softly (e.g. I think my deadline for making a plan for those dates will need to be March 13th, if it's after that I'll have to move the holiday dates to sometime in June) but he would need to meet in the middle too and figure out why he's a) so reactive and b) hard to pin down. My guess from this tiny example would be that you are trapped in a bit of a parent/child dynamic that you both resent.

I don’t know why people are trying to come up with alternative wording. His complaint that it’s threatening is patently ridiculous. Of course it sounds unfriendly you’re pissed off with him. I would probably respond with something like “You’re threatening the holiday with your laziness. Don’t get on your high horse because I’ve pointed it out.”

my Oh is similar at times but not on all subjects, he has adhd. He can be completely organised for work, he works away all over the country. Can get all of that planned, where he’s staying, clothes, everything as I don’t get involved. Plus manages people as part of his job. Does all of that fine, but can’t remember (be bothered) to write it on the calendar . I went back to a paper one to help - or to tell me. He thinks that customers, managers, team, himself, his work calendar all know so I must do?

he is also not any good at getting things organised to do with me. It has caused a lot of hurt feelings and stupid rows over the years as at times I’ve been accused of nagging, I’m just trying to be organised, I’m autistic so need routines so it’s really hard for me to cope with.

Agree. Just ask him what benefit is gettimg out of dithering.
Is it specifically holidays or is he a faffer full stop

And no it’s not threatening.

What does he say is threatening about it?. It’s not do this now or else, that is threatening. It’s we need to organise some annual leave from work to have a lovely holiday. Try different sentences.

I'm guessing he does this with loads of stuff... Doesn't want to be 'controlled'. He won't change. But, if you want to stick with him, then you'll need to modify your language as it sounds a wee bit like 'demand avoidance' stuff.... So could say... 'would you prefer Rome or Barcelona we could look through to find some hotels if you like?

So he doesn't like to hear his actions / inactions have consequences??

It's not a threat, your explaining what will happen as a result.

Why is he dragging his feet so much?
Does he have ADHD or any other issues with executive function, where organisation is difficult? If so, he may carry a lot of shame around it especially if it's a life long pattern.

Is it usually difficult for him to be allowed time off when requested?

If not, just book the holiday. Tell him the dates he’s on holiday (all booked!) so he needs to book the time off from work.

If it’s usually a problem to get time-off (and not just because he can’t be bothered to ask for it) then you’ll just have to wait.

Gosh this is far too nit-picky! Sounds like you just need to know where you stand to make arrangements and he's turning it into an argument. I'd forget the holiday!

Isn’t this reverse victim behaviour ie emotional abuse.

He deflects, attacks and then makes out he’s the victim.

It’s emotionally manipulative.

Just tell him not to be so ridiculous. That giving him a piece of factual information about what needs doing and why isn't a threat. And that you'd really appreciate it IF instead of playing the victim over nothing at all, he just sat down with you and got it sorted.
Seriously you really shouldn't indulge this nonsense. Its just manipulation to distract you from the fact he can't be relied on to do what he's supposed to.

It's a form of abuse OP. He is trying to control your speech (and probably your tone) to disempower you and force you to walk on eggshells. Your self esteem will plummet until he has "trained" you, ie broken you. This is no way to live. Look up DARVO and emotional/mental abuse and start planning a different life, one where you are not jumping through hoops all the time, if not for yourself then do it for your child.

You don’t need to rephrase your wording. There is nothing wrong with it. If he has continually failed to do the one thing that will allow you to book a holiday that he says he wants, you are obviously going to point out that the holiday can’t be booked unless he sorts his leave out (or whatever the scenario is). If he says you are threatening him ask him whether he wants to go and how he sees that situation playing out if he doesn’t book the leave.

Or tell him to stop being such a fucking baby and take responsibility for his actions or lack of actions.

Either - he is deliberately and maliciously keeping you uncertain in order to make you miserable, in which case end the relationship.

Or - try keeping your communication exclusively to "I" statements eg "I am feeling upset and stressed because of the uncertainty about our holiday plans and not knowing whether we can use the dates I have booked at work" - only talk about your feelings and about right now. Don't talk about consequences im future, talk about the way that the worry is affecting you right now but you can do that without your "if" statements.

What you have posted so far makes scenario 1 more likely tbh. He sounds a bit unhinged the way you write it. But equally, it could be that you are catastrophising a worst possible scenario by assuming that everything will have to be cancelled if he doesn't start talking specifics right now, when he feels that he has other priorities for his headspace right now and there would be no problem just finding a last minute deal the week before, and the real issue is the emotional stress state you get yourself into with that kind of uncertainty.

After a few times of asking and hearing his nonsense about threats I’d just book whatever days suited me

This is typical male DARVO, albeit a rather pathetic weaksauce example of the genre. When you phrase your sentences that way, it’s because you need him to do something - probably something quite basic that he already knows he should be doing - and you need him to understand why he must do it and the practical consequences if he doesn’t. You’re deliberately avoiding nagging by phrasing it this way, which tells me he’s been using that accusation to control you for a while. What he’s doing, with his little taboo on the word “if”, is closing off the only way you have left of placing even the lightest expectations on him. If you even allude to the idea that he should be doing something he doesn’t feel like doing, that in itself is nagging. So shut up, smile sweetly, and do everything yourself.

Are you happy with that?