To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

And to add, before I log-off and enjoy a movie night - I think that @MNHQ should really be looking to crack down on posters who think it is appropriate to armchair diagnose other users who have not asked for that sort of input, especially when it’s done within the context of undermining someone’s opinion or experience. It goes beyond the normal debate that you’d naturally expect in AIBU. You can of course expect to be challenged when posting in AIBU, that’s the purpose of the board, but throwing diagnoses at people is incredibly harmful. You only need to look at the thread in 30 day chat about the poor poster whose husband is currently having a MH crisis and has misdiagnosed himself on the interest as having something else. There are professionals around to diagnose for a reason.

I’m not just talking about this thread, I’ve seen it time and time again on here directed towards other users and it seems to be an ongoing issue with MN.

In terms of telling your family - just be honest and firm. It’s sounds like your parents need a reality check on what will happen with your brother. Set some boundaries - eg. No month long holidays to visit you unless they are invited! If you end up in a small apartment - a boundary about if they can stay with you or if you will look into nearby hotels/ vacation rentals ect

there is a living abroad board on here that may be useful. Aibu usually has the most traffic but the most controversy!

And avoid guilt trips by being firm and consistent with your messaging and have a set ‘line’ that you use. Eg ‘I’m really going to miss you too but I’m doing what I think is best for my family. it’s a short flight away and you will still be able to spend quality time with me and our family’ rinse, repeat

Wrong, wrong and wrong. FFS.

OP, this may sound bananas 😆 but since you and your SIL get along well and you are set on moving to Malta, as is she and her partner, have you considered temporarily living with her and her partner? Not forever, of course, but perhaps as a way to save money during the first few months wherever you move, since the rent would be split? It could also give all of you time to "shop around" and be able to view apartments etc.

Can't believe you've had such a bashing OP. I reckon a lot of these comments are coming from mumsnetters living in damp and dreary towns with fried chicken wrappers blowing in the wind who wish they had the guts to shake up their life and do something more exciting than pick up their husband from the pub and look forward to a takeaway and strictly on a Saturday. Not everyone is ok just plodding along, especially when you don't even have any community or family ties.

You might find you are isolated and struggle to make friends in Germany or Malta - that is true. But you'll be living somewhere new and going on an adventure as a family. My husband and I are from different countries and becoming immigrants in a new country for us both was the making of us. In the UK I had always had the sense he was only still there for me, he struggled to put down roots and settle / integrate meaningfully. I think it all felt pointless for him because he didn't see himself living there long term. We moved and we BOTH got new jobs, new friends, new hobbies and made tonnes of new friends. Yes we were lucky making friends but I still think we needed the move and would have been 10x happier than we were in the UK navigating a new life as a family. It's fab. I think from what you have said you will feel the same x

I’ve lived in five different countries and will probably live in more, and I love where I live now. I am all in favour of embracing a new culture, a new language, a new climate. I still think the OP is flip flopping around some thoroughly unthought-through decisions.

I have lived in 3 different countries, not from the UK originally. I eloped to germany and arrived there with only a few hundred euros and 2 suitcases as a tourist, was going to marry dh (who was a student) and then apply for residency. I was also 22 and healthy. I then moved to London after a year.

I still think what OP is doing is risky as a new mother. If you are a young adult couple, you have many more options including a studio or even a houseshare. You might even subsist on a bad diet of cheap frozen food and curries for a short time and be none the worse for wear. Carry ikea furniture on the bus cos you can't afford the delivery. It is much more punishing for a child if you are in that situation and its unlikely OP would be in that situation in Liverpool. Childcare is expensive but she has savings. I only have stat maternity pay but I have over 30k in savings (my dh earns more but I do have a 1282 mortgage and live in London). My son goes to baby Mandarin class and baby sign language class, has a zoo, London transport museum and British museum membership (we have the memberships and take him), goes to highgate woods to play on the swings, goes to a free German playgroup, meets up with the other babies in my nct group. I get lots of cheap baby toys from the local charity shop, and his clothes from vinted.i always get a seat on public transport. Could OP replicate this easily in Malta? That is the question. I never knew all this existed before I became a mum but in my local area there are tons of free or cheap activities for mums i.e. stay and play and rhyme time at the library.

Best of luck. You sound intelligent, thoughtful and practical. The only thing I would say is that Germany, to me, sounds the better option.
Malta is more expensive, further away, and not the mainland Europe you love. It is a very particular place.
Germany would be better if you do need to help in any way with family, or if you want to maintain a relationship with your mum. Germany is also awesome.

I’d have loved to settle in London if we could’ve afforded it 🙂Fabulous city. If I ever win the lottery I’d love to be a stereotypical West London mum 😂(joking)

I’ve never gotten on with Liverpool. It doesn’t help that I’m not in the most desirable area of Liverpool. I can see it does have an appeal in that there’s some attractions in the city centre and easy access to the Lake District, Wales etc but it definitely hasn’t got nearly as much going on for babies as what you’re little boy has (we do of course still have a baby group, baby swimming, baby massage etc). I don’t think Liverpool is comparable to London really. Even when we were looking to buy a house here as it felt the “responsible” thing to do, we both just felt a bit meh throughout the whole process.

Sometimes you can just…not like a particular city and that is okay. I know there’s all sorts
of different places in the UK that we could go to, but nothing has ever caught our eye. Of course I’d love Cornwall or a village in the Cotswolds, but there’s areas are incredibly expensive and with a lack of job opportunities.

Malta tends to be a bit of a marmite country, people either love it or hate it. Me and my partner adore it. I think I’d find stuff to do with baby, I’ve seen mum and baby outdoor swimming groups whilst there which looked lovely.

I think we both have a bee in our bonnet that we want to try living abroad with our baby. We came close to moving to Malta a couple of years ago and I chickened out over feeling guilty about my family which is a big regret of mine, it certainly would’ve been simpler then than going post- baby. But it is what it is, we’ve got savings, motivation and each have a strong head on our shoulders so I think we’ll muddle through. If we weren’t to try it now then maybe we never would - would be even harder once we have school aged children.

They are both very different countries. Germany would of course have been better for access to green spaces and access to other countries throughout Europe. But with SIL no longer being there long-term things have changed a bit, without that stronghold there it might be a little bit too tough to settle given the language barrier.

I think we’ve won SIL over when we’ve gone on so much about Malta in the past 😁

All countries are going to have their pros and cons at the end of the day.

Malta is certainly a bit one on its own but we love it there, it has a unique charm. Valletta and the “Three Cities” have my heart. And beautiful Marsaxlokk where I have a couple of acquaintances. The main island is very much a rock but there are some hiking spots a bit off the beaten track, and you can also nip over to Gozo if missing greenery - I’ve had some fabulous picnics in the grass in Gozo.

Wonderful country - definitely been hit by a cost of living crisis in recent years but so has everywhere. When seeking advice on Maltese discussion boards to get advice from Maltese people, and also reaching out to British expat groups to gather people’s experiences, the general consensus is that people by and large large are able to find work there after moving. It feels realistic.

This has been suggested by SIL as they will be going first.

So the invite is there. It’d certainly be a way to save money and take some of the pressure off in those initial months when flat hunting.

I think there’s a risk though that 2 couples living in one apartment, both having babies could lead to some tension, tiredness among the adults and getting under each others feet - despite how well we usually get on with each other. It’s one thing to want to be near each other as a support system but maybe another to all live together haha.

So it’s an option to consider but we’ll certainly still be saving up for the possibility that we might need a short-term rental situation (such as an AirBandB) until we can land a proper rental contract.

Great post.

I think if you've long had Malta in mind as an option then that sounds promising. I think some negative responses were due to perceived flip-flopping but this isn't fair if you've had that on the cards for a long time.

I think it's important to move somewhere you would be happy to stay in even if SIL weren't there (just in case) but it sounds like you'd be happy in Malta even if they weren't there.

Thank you.

I appreciate the way in which I’ve posted has probably confused people so I can get why people have been a bit baffled and concerned at the sudden flip from Germany to Malta, but there’s years background to it all which I hadn’t mentioned in my original OP as my original intent was to seek advice on my family. I’ve been guilty of drip-feeding throughout the thread so can’t blame people for not being able to keep up.

There has been lots of very useful, well-intentioned advice in this thread and it’s all been much appreciated. I was upset at the suggestion that I was unwell/vulnerable and needed to speak to a midwife - I felt that was uncalled for and I do not identify with that whatsoever. It made me quite upset as this is a much wanted IVF baby and I am absolutely thrilled about my pregnancy and can’t wait to be a mother. Focusing on growing our little family into a 3 is giving me all of the joy and happiness in the world despite having horrible HG currently, and I am certainly not struggling with my MH and I am perfectly rational. It was a very harmful comment for that particular poster to have made.

I had asked MNHQ to delete the thread based on that particular comment but I’m glad they didn’t as it’ll be good to look back on some of the advice as we go through the process.

Going to try to go back to sleep now. Was having a lovely slumber but got woken up by lovely DP getting ready to go and do a 12 hour overtime night shift, poor sod. And somehow found myself on MN again when I couldn’t get back to sleep 😂

Run, darling, run! Go live your life. Your parents will want the best for you, and if they don't? All the more reason for you to emigrate.

If you look at my original post I was saying that possible neurodivergence can be exceptionally helpful in an overseas move of this type and mentioned how much it had helped me with all my international moves and wished you luck with it. So, it's not necessarily a negative in my mind.

But it's good to recognise it if it's there so that you can factor it into questioning yourself as to how your thought processes work and avoid the dangers of flipping from one possible fixation to another without looking at all sides of the question.

It sounds like you're off to Malta, so all the best with that. And you're young. If it doesn't work out, you have decades to regroup and make a new plan. It's not the end of the world if you hit a brick wall at your age.

Jesus @WaryHiker are you still suggesting that the OP is neurodivergent? She has said clearly several times that she does not believe she is, and you’re still saying “it’s good to recognise it’s there”?

Maybe it would be good to recognise that you’re not in fact qualified to diagnose neurodivergence, and that nobody who is actually qualified would try to diagnose it based on some written responses on a social media thread?

I think people are envious, OP. They know the UK is shit. And they’re jealous of you having the balls to go, and trying to justify it to themselves by being negative, to try and make themselves feel better about staying here.

Go. What’s the worst that can happen? Your mum says “things always work out”. Apply that logic to you emigrating.

Good luck.

P.S. I am jealous! But don’t have the balls to do anything about it!

As someone who has watched my siblings make their own choices and live their own lives without a care, whilst being ‘left behind’ to look after our parents, PLEASE choose yourself. Your parents have had their chance to make life choices - why should they dictate yours too?

That's the only reason that you can think of that people might think this is a bad idea? Really?

I think you are underestimating how many new friends your baby will make you.

I have worked as a consultant psychiatrist for 30 years and am yet to ‘diagnose’ someone over the internet, even if I may have suspicions. It’s best avoided.

I do feel a little sad about the OP's options within the UK.

I definitely recognise the point that sometimes a city is a bad match for your skills and preferred lifestyle - I have the same!

The OP is clearly clever and strategic. She would have been an asset to professional social research in government, market research or polling. My guess is that there is less of such work in Liverpool so it would have meant commuting.

If the UK could sort out transport, options would increase massively for young professional women outside London.

Most of us just want a reasonable house without being exposed to mortgage interest rate risk or rent increase risk, work which isn't punishing and where there is progression, pension security, and opportunities/meaningful activities for our children.

The OP is not unreasonable to feel that staying where she is will be risky. It could all work out fine - but it's not certain. It's risky to move of course, but also risky to stay. Highlighting that is naturally going to unsettle people committed to staying here.