To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

This….again. If OP and her partner break up why would she want to move back to UK with baby, given everything she’s said about how there’s nothing in uk for her? Did you not read her post?!

It’s not worth getting into a back and forth with them.

People on this thread have profiled me and decided that I’m neurodivergent, accidentally pregnant, incapable of finding work, having a pre-natal mental health crisis and that I’m being groomed by my big, bad Eastern European partner who wants me to be isolated in a pokey flat in a foreign country. They’ve also decided that I have chosen to emigrate on an overnight decision, and it has been completely ignored that we’d planned this for years and researched potential countries (including Germany and Malta) extensively having spent periods of time in both countries throughout the years. When I respond to such posters, to correct them and answer their question about whether I’ve considered something (which I usually have), I’m accused of being obsessed.

Xenophobic and misogynistic undertones from posters throughout the whole thread. My partner has done his own research and made a similar post on another forum, about looking to relocate his growing family to the EU and seeking input of people’s experiences and how it worked out for them. Funnily enough, nobody told him he was ill or neurodivergent. Hysterical women, eh?

And by “hysterical women”, I’m referring to the way some commenters seem to perceive me. Apparently I’m incapable of independent thought and am managed entirely by hormones and emotion. Oh, and my controlling partner too.

It’s sad but you need to live your life. You may end up back in the UK later to help with parental care. But they have to let you live your life.

And I have also been an emigrant which made my gran sad but ultimately it’s my life.

You are right, @JHound. I am sad about ds2 moving to Australia and starting a new life there, but it is far more important to me that he lives his life and is happy and fulfilled, so I am happy for him.

Absolutely this. But it's clear that the OP's parents' and their attitudes aren't actually the problem here. She has a burning desire to get out of the UK, but that alone is not a good reason to plump, fairly arbitrarily, for places with nothing in common other than the (possible) presence of a family member of her partner's.

What will you do if your partner's sister decides after being there a bit that Malta isn't the place for her and she decides it's time to up and move countries again? What if they look into Malta and decide to stay in Germany? Or immigrate to the Nordic country where one of the relatives is?

You're putting your future and your baby's in the hand of your partner's sister. She's made choices that have landed her in the position of being a low income worker in a country where she's not fluent in the language and she's now decided she doesn't want to live like that and the grass is greener in a crowded, overdeveloped, very expensive island.

So sorry you are having people make massive, incorrect assumptions. It sounds like it is best for you to move, so go for it. Worst case scenario, if it doesn't work out, you move back, or try somewhere different. I like Malta, it has history, culture, and friendly people. I found it a curious combination of British and Italian.

It is difficult to feel like you are leaving family that may want your support in the future. But it shouldn't be one sided. If they aren't adding to your quality of life now, there is no reason to feel like you have a full obligation to care for them in the future. One advantage of the UK (and many other countries), is that there is state provision. Its not fantastic, but it does exist.

I've been thinking a little lately about what we would do if my parents needed care. We live in the UK, but a long way apart. They made it very clear when we had children, me and my siblings, that they wouldn't commit to childcare. Whilst they have means to (the money and time), they hardly visit and wouldn't be interested in even sporadically helping on one off occasions with their grandchildren. I get they raised us (interestingly with fairly regular school holiday visits to grandparents, whilst they didn't provide day to day care due to distance). So given the lack of support now while they could, should we feel obligated to provide care for them in the future? They didn't for their parents. Its a strange quandary, what are we 'obligated' to do, what is worth feeling guilty about, and what is a result of their personal decisions and actions when they were able?

I say you have to prioritise yourself, your husband and soon to be child, enjoy your life, and manage what you can for others after you are taken care of in the best way for you and your family

So essentially for us the decision was made to leave the UK a while ago and it was a toss-up between Germany and Malta. We have felt that Malta will be easier to become established in, due to the existence of my partner’s industry and lack of a language barrier making it easier for us both to access work. But Germany had the edge in the sense that we’d have a family member there. If we were not taking into account the location of SIL, Malta would’ve been a slam-dunk over Germany for both of us in terms of where to live. I still see the appeal with Germany and I stand by everything I said about Germany earlier in the thread, but the language barrier is a huge factor.

Being close to partner’s sister, we’ve had several conversations with them when we have met up and discussed that we will potentially look to come to Germany, but that we also see Malta as a viable option (these conversations have occurred over the span of a few years, so nothing impulsive). They had looked into it a bit too, and said that Malta seems decent, but no decisions were made.

When we spoke to them this week and said that we were officially looking to leave the UK and were no longer attempting to buy a house and settle in the UK, and we let them know we were looking into Germany. They advised they had actually taken into account what we had said about Malta, and had independently already made the decision to move there and were planning on informing us shortly.

This ended up being a very positive conversation as, like I have said, we have been keen on Malta but what was making us unsure about that is that we’d have had the option to have a family member nearby if we had went to Germany.

Given that they do appear to have a tendency to want to move a lot, I can see that it would be illogical to relocate purely on the basis of being near to them. DP acknowledged this too after our conversation with them. Me and DP discussed it between ourselves and decided that we want to give Malta a shot. To have his sister nearby will be a bonus, but not the basis of our decision, as there is of course the chance they will change their mind or move again.

Except it’s not a ‘massive incorrect assumption’ to point out that the OP is plumping arbitrarily for very different countries on the strength of the thoughts of a low-paid, rather rootless relative of her partner’s who at the start of the thread was apparently full of the joys of living in Germany and the opportunities of Hamburg, and now says she’s restricted to low-paid jobs because of her lack of fluent German and is moving to a completely different country to see if low-paid jobs are better there, with the OP apparently intent on following her on the strength of a single conversation.

Read my latest comment.

Again, this is absolutely incorrect. People should refrain from giving advice on topics they don't understand.

I think mumsnet is judgy because being a first time mum is a huge thing and moving country is a massive upheaval. Imagine dealing with sleepless nights, sick baby, breastfeeding on top of the upheaval that comes with moving to a new country. And even if the baby is a toddler it is still difficult. It would be very different advice if you and dh were DINKs who weren't planning kids for years. When I relocated to germany years ago I went 4 months without health insurance. I was 22, fit and healthy. It didnt matter. It matters a lot now.

Would you be moving if your family wasn't putting expectations on you to be your brother's carer?

Think about it.

That said, have a safe delivery and move and I wish you well.

And I honestly don’t mind people giving advice in regards to the fact that moving with a baby isn’t going to be a walk in the park. Though I am well aware of this.

Where I have taken issue, is with people armchair diagnosing me with neurodivergence and the rather snide comment telling me I’m vulnerable and asking me to refer myself to my midwife for mental health support. And the poster who casually suggested I’m being groomed by my partner based on (admittedly by the poster) stereotypes of the part of the world that he is from. It is all incredibly inappropriate, and I don’t feel that the comments are well-intentioned. I have reported them.

@tangotingo before you mentioned Malta I wondered it it may be an option as have heard good things (likewise, Portugal) but at that point you were set on Germany. I’m sure Malta could work for you!

The thread has veered well away from the issue you actually wanted advice on, I’m glad to see that you have made the firm decision to escape from your parents and their expectations!

You’ve obviously researched carefully and you have realistic ideas of what this move will be like, so I think you’ll be ok wherever you go. Best of luck with it all :)

Yes, I think we would. For several reasons. In fact I would say the expectations of my parents have been the one thing that’s made me doubt moving and what made me change my mind when we came very close to moving a couple of years ago, but I’ve decided to no longer consider that aspect. Really the basis of my OP should’ve been more centred around the fact that I’ve decided to emigrated and as to whether I was BU to have guilt over the decision. By going into so much detail on the specifics and the ins and outs, the thread has ended up completely going off the rails as I’ve felt the need to defend our decision and correct outrageous assumptions. Lesson learnt.

Thank you 😊

If you read the thread, you would have seen her talk about Malta (in informed detail, not a throwaway remark) before she had the conversation with her DP's family. And your apparent concerns about a lack of fluent german are solved by a move to Malta instead. Even if she is trying out different countries as ideas, what is the problem with this? It is very possible to move around, the UK and Europe, to try different places before settling on the one for them. They have this ability due to her DP's EU passport.

The only sensible suggestion based on anything you have written would be to suggest looking at putting some of their savings into an account for her alone, say £5k ish. Enough for a flight back to the UK and rent deposit, so if it did go wrong she has a back up plan. Otherwise, you are criticising someone for wanting a change, researching and considering different options, not being afraid to change their mind, trying to improve their families long term prospects and giving something a try, (all of which are admirable qualities).

A more positive and constructive way to word your concerns would just involve ensuring she has a back up plan. Many people move to countries without a full understanding of the language. OP has a plan to learn (if needed), involving low paid jobs. But quality of life is different to levels of earnings and has more to do with the cost of living compared to minimum wage.

Try to look at life more glass half full than leaking everywhere

Nail on the head, thank you!

That poster was responding to somebody else who was wondering about moving to Malta, not you.

Good luck OP. Just try to continue to save and train in case you need a Plan B.

Malta is beautiful but a bit isolated. Check how residence permits work since Brexit.

I agree

What an informative, introspective and helpful contribution to the thread. I hope that when you did your studies to become qualified as a diagnostic psychiatrist, you did more than just read case studies and nod along saying “I agree”