To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

In the call centre? Are you going to accept?

How come you’ve spent “extensive” periods of time in Malta?

I see what you are doing, with firing random questions at me following your suggestion of me being neurodiverse. I’m not going to rise to the obvious goading - you want me to feel compelled to justify myself, you will drag me into a back and forth and then you will find points in which you will hone in on to further prove your “diagnosis”. Any attempts I make to respond to your questioning with genuine and valid answers, will be met with further questions and attempts to catch me out. You want to prove something to yourself (that I am ND) and feel sanctimonious.

If I felt you were asking the questions in good faith, maybe I’d answer. You left it too late in the thread to come in with this, unfortunately there’s not that many pages left, and you look somewhat daft.

It's the feeling of being trapped by people who love you, but don't have your best interests at heart - they are only thinking of themselves and (in their heads) have meshed you right in to their situation.
It's the burden of people feeling they own you, or have some rights to you, when you are not even enjoying the relationship, or having your needs met in it.
You don't, however, need to move country to get out of the strangle hold.
You could assert your boundaries. You could tell them you won't be caring for your adult brother when they can't, and they should put things in order.
You could move to the other side of this country.
If you do go, you potentially isolate yourself even further.
It could though, be wonderful. In your shoes, I would probably go for it!
If you go, go married.

Does MN have a stance on the wholly irresponsible, and downright dangerous tendency of some posters to casually armchair diagnose people with neurodiversity?

Even with my degree in psychology and moderate understanding it gives me of neurodiversity, I appreciate I’d need many, many more years of higher education to be even remotely close to being qualified to diagnose someone. Therefore, I don’t diagnose people. It’s really quite simple.

Also, several individuals ganging together on an online forum, pointing fingers and saying “I think she’s neurodivergent” “Oh I agree, her posts scream it” isn’t a really an ethical way to deal with someone who you think genuinely needs support.

FWIW I have multiple autistic relatives - in fact my family is majority autistic. I’ve done lots of training in autism, volunteer as a parent advocate at the local autism charity and at an autism friendly play/home ed session.

Nothing about the OP’s posts even vaguely sets off alarm bells for me! So I don’t know what those other posters are talking about tbh.

But let’s be clear - it doesn’t matter if you think the OP is autistic, there’s still no reason to think she’s not a competent adult who has researched these issues and can make her own decisions. She has a degree, she’s travelled, she’s lived abroad, and she’s making an informed and careful decision that lots of other people make!

Exactly - even if my posting style indicates the all-elusive “neurodiversity” that I apparently have, it wouldn’t even suggest anything about my overall executive functioning - the ability to maintain a job, social interaction, life admin, caring for my baby etc.

It’s not just ND they’ve gone for, there’s been suggestion on this thread of pre-natal mental health issues which are apparently affecting my behaviour and decision-making. Basically another way of saying “Ahhh, I think you’re being a bit hormonal, love.”

Yes - I think mumsnet threads can often get derailed by a few people with very strong (and sometimes very odd!) opinions on some minor angle.

Really you started out asking for advice on the guilt/expectations from your parents, and I’m glad you’ve managed to get advice on that in between all the nonsense!

Swinging from Germany to Malta after one video call is crazy 🙈.

find a country that YOU want to live in. Not your SIL. Are you sure she wants you to come, given she was keen on Germany and then when you said you wanted to join changed to Malta?? It’s a lot of pressure to put on another person relying on them to be your entire friendship group in a new country.

Malta and Germany are so different…im
just finding it hard to understand how you could be so keen on one then completely go off it at the drop on a hat and onto another one.

there are many better options in Europe for you than Malta (imo).

why don’t you write a list of what you are looking for on here and we can make suggestions? Free childcare and hospitality jobs is not a big enough sell for Malta, given many other locations across Europe will offer these as well

Do you want to address me directly in order to diagnose me? @Carla786

It doesn’t appear as though you have RTFT nor understand the sort of roles we would be looking to work in Malta, which is not hospitality.

Do you think Malta will give your eventually adult children the best future prospects?

Are you speaking in terms of education? It would certainly be arrogant to say “the best”, certainly no worse than the UK I don’t think - the curriculum is fairly similar between both countries. There are many similarities between systems in 2 countries due to the close relationship the UK has had with Malta throughout their time in the Commonwealth. Malta is obviously much smaller than the UK, which gives them access to jobs within a city such as Valletta without necessarily needing to live in the city. If we were to move to a quiet, safer part of the UK such as a market town in Herefordshire, they could potentially be far away from any urban hubs unless they decide to go to university in a city.

In in the worst case scenario and they don’t want to stay in Malta as adults, through the EU citizenship that they are eligible for through their father, our children will be free to study throughout Europe for higher education if they so wish and are academically able to do so.

OP you're being goaded by menz goaders. Lots of the saddos on here. Very few will be women. Ignore them they get thrills from you responding. 💐

For those who are genuinely curious about Malta (I’ve seen some commenters who appear to be curious) and not just attempting to shoot me down:

In terms of working within Malta, once I have gained residency, I would be applying for roles such as this:

https://jobsinmalta.com/job/insurance/insurance-associate-based-in-malta-or-gozo-92043

This by far isn’t the only role available within Malta which would be suitable for me, just one example. There are many job listings of a similar calibre. I have experience of insurance customer service, and sales within the UK. And I had 2 years in a travel and tourism role in Canada doing promotions for excursions at a hotel. So I do not feel as though I would be unemployable in Malta. Some listings do require Maltese but I’ve found that just as many only ask for English as they are dealing with a client base outside of Malta.

Based on discussions I’ve had over the years, Malta seems very appealing to many Brits. It has of course become a lot harder since Brexit. It appears to be the most realistic EU country for Brits to establish themselves in if they don’t have a second language, other than Ireland of course. Ireland doesn’t appeal to us for a long array of reasons, lovely country but overall very culturally and visually similar to the UK and wouldn’t offer us the change we want.

Malta hasn’t come completely out of left field for us - I know of Brit couple who are teachers out there.

Certainly it may take a while and several applications to actually land a job offer, which is par for the course these days wherever you live. The I-Gaming industry over there is also crying out for customer support agents who speak my partner’s native language, which we discovered a while ago and were pleasantly surprised by. And with his career industry also existing there, there’s a potential job paths he could look into straight away.

Germany was also a lovely prospect and I do think we could’ve made it work eventually, but I wasn’t in any doubt that it might be a tricky initial start. But with the most recent development that there would no longer be a family member there, it makes sense to go back to our Plan A, which was always Malta.

Oh, it’s you.

Couldn’t wait to jump in there with your wisdom could you?

That was an example of the sort of industry that exists within Malta, if you spend time on a Maltese job board you’ll see many others requiring only English.

OP, you don't need permission from the thread. Your happiness is your best revenge on the thread derailers!

Keep building up your skills to give you as many options as possible. And look after yourself during the pregnancy. The early weeks are hard work - I remember being exhausted!

I could give you 10 other links in the same industry for similar roles which request only English, but I’m not going to do so. I hope since you’ve remained lurking on the thread that you’ve taken into account what I have said about armchair diagnosing of neurodiversity, since you are one of the posters who took part in that behaviour.

It'a highly unlikely that you would be able to just move to Germany without a job offer and sponsorship and a basic grasp of the German language. Even if your partner can secure a job there, he qould not neccessarily be able to take you along with him and you would not be able to work in a customer service or hospitality role without a working visa or being able to speak the language.

It sounds like a pipedream tbh, and I wouldn't go upsetting your mother until you've done a lot more research.

What if you broke up with your partner? You may end up stuck in a country where you can't work or speak the language!

Thank you! I know, I don’t need to prove anything, I don’t usually bother with online forums. I’ve had far too much free time lately. I’ve been off for weeks with HG and partner working night shifts and I have been bored out of my mind (I’m sure someone will shortly be along to suggest that that’s why I want to move🙃)!

I’ve watched the entire Netflix library and have since turned to MN and social media to keep my mind occupied, it’s certainly not the most productive use of my time😁 There’s some utter battshittery on here. Back at work on Monday and it can’t come soon enough.

Hormonal has often been a sexist thing used to dismiss prenatal women (like menopause, periods etc) but at the same time, it's true hormones in all those cases can affect decision making. I don't think that's true in your case from your posts, though.

Why do you think disagreeing or seeing potential issues, or being unpleasant, for that matter, means people are men? Women are varied, for good and bad.

Where this thread has gone wrong is the amount of detail I gave in my OP. I was never really looking to debate whether I should move or not, that decision had been made a while ago, and the relevant research had been done of both countries and as mentioned, we’ve considered Germany OR Malta for years and we literally nearly moved to Malta 2 years ago and had things in place, and I changed my mind due to my mother and concern that DP still wouldn’t have any family.

On this thread, I wanted to discuss the impact on family members left behind and how to cope with guilt. Even though our made is made up about emigrating, I do of course feel bad and wanted support on managing that, breaking the news etc. I had thought the thread title made clear what it is I had wanted to discuss but people fixated on other parts. I should’ve just said “We’re emigrating.” and then discussed my family concerns.

When people were expressing concerns about our move, I was responding trying to explain that the factors they were worried about had already been considered in great detail by myself and partner, as I was trying to get the thread back on track to discussing my mum. In the end I just gave up trying to get it back on track and then instead decided I may as well try to get some practical advice about our emigration from the thread hence why I added further detail about considering Malta too, but it sent the thread further left-field with people telling me I’m ill, ND, vulnerable and need to get help. Even though I know these posters are incorrect, having an onslaught of this and being psychoanalysed has been unpleasant.

I’m glad it’s nearly reached the post limit. I’m officially done now. It’s all been a bit of a disaster.