To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

My partner is not German.

Consider that you may be even more lonely and miserable if you move.
Why are you lonely?
What about friends /work colleagues /neighbours etc?
Why do you think that you will be less lonely in Germany?

Have you spent any time in Germany? I wouldn’t let guilt stop me from emigrating but you seem to be basing your decision making without even visiting the place.
Also, will you be able to work if you’re not an EU citizen?

@tangotingo are you currently learning German? Do you speak your partner’s language?

My husband and I immigrated to the UK 20 years ago from the states and it worked out well for us. But we were in it together and starting from scratch together in a country where we spoke the language and could both work. And it was still super hard.

leaving aside the family situation, I think you need to get a lot more information first. As others have said, Hamburg is expensive. You need to work out your budget, do your research and make sure it makes sense financially as you definitely won’t be able to work for some time - if ever. My husband actually had a job offer in Munich years ago so we looked into it a bit and I would have had years before I’d be even possibly able to work as I work in admin so would need good German. Leaving that aside, you’d need to interact with plumbers and doctors and forms and schools and all sorts in German as the parent at home. You’ll need an intensive language course for sure.

I called my mom crying a lot at the start. It was just so difficult and everything was confusing - and it was all in English. Some of that is easier nowadays with apps and FaceTime and such (I was using calling cards from pay phones to phone my family!) but it will still be a challenge.

We made a huge mistake when working out our budget for moving here. My husband had a job offer so we worked out if it was enough for me to take a bit of time to find a job. Thought it was all fine but we didn’t know about council tax as there’s nothing like that in the states. So our budget was wrong and I had to start tempting right away to make up the difference. So just make sure you know everything you’ll need to pay - insurance and taxes and food and everything else. Every country has something surprising. Am sure there are online groups for immigrants to Germany so worth looking more specifically.

As far as guilt for leaving your family - I do feel guilty sometimes, but I’m sure I’ve created the best life I could for my kids and our parents all support that. It’s still complicated and hard but it’s just balancing lots of trade offs and figuring out what is best for you all.

If that’s in response to my post about a German father, it doesn’t matter much. Custody is dealt with in the country where the child is resident and most courts will keep the child in the country where they are rather than letting a parent take them overseas.

Whether your child is born in the UK or Germany, if you split in Germany and your ex wants to stay there, you will be unlikely to be allowed to leave without your child.

"Emigrate" to Germany?? It's pretty much just across the road! Less time to fly than from Sydney to Melbourne. You can virtually commute weekly. The distance is not the issue. The real potential problems have already been enumerated by PPs. Lack of the language, rights of residence, children-the biggie. But the reality is-you want to escape your family. I get that. Truly. Good luck!

Yes we spend 3 weeks a year there though I appreciate that’s a holiday and doesn’t give a true representation

Me too, Hamburg is great. I came quite close to moving there between the referendum and the UK leaving the EU.

And I'd be making sure I was far enough away not to get roped into care. Your sibling is not your responsibility.

Just picking up on the no friends point Op, are you sociable and able to make friends easily? It doesn't sound like it , if you have no friends here. Do you think you will be able make friends in another country, when you can't speak the language? You are basing everything on other people's experiences and you are not them.

you’re not being selfish, and you really don’t have to justify your reasons for going. I would absolutely marry before having the baby though (I’d do that even if I wasn’t leaving the country though) given you might not be able to get a job and have the means to support yourself.

Get cracking on learning German! It's not the hardest language but you'll need to speak it well if you want to prepare for work. The first years with your baby are a good opportunity. But do marry to make getting residency easier. I cannot think of any reason not to give it a go.

What about a work visa @tangotingo ? You will require one if you intend to work. You are in a vulnerable position if you’re unmarried and reliant on your partners wage as a non-eu citizen.

Go for it! Make the move. Sounds like you are thinking ahead and it's not a spur of the moment thing. Mum and baby care is great in Germany, many people speak English, it sounds like there are some specific opportunities for your family there. Don't let yourself be tied down to an English house full of damp that you don't really want and the selfish unspoken expectation of your parents to care for your brother. It will be a kindness to him to force them to put other plans in place as it will be even more obvious you cannot help from Germany. They can still visit you or you can visit them by plane, flights are not long, it is not Australia!

I think you ought to marry your partner, it would make the immigration side of things easier. Non EU spouses have the right to live with their husband/wife anywhere in the EU and I believe to work, too. Pop down the registry office and get it sorted then you can plan your next steps together! Since you have savings and your partner is an EU citizen you don't need jobs to immediately go to, you have the luxury to just move and settle down and then look around for work.

Go live your life

Well it sounds like you’ve made your mind up OP, and no I don’t think you’re being selfish.

However the fact you have no friends in the UK is a good indicator of how easy you will find it to make friends in Germany. You could end up just as friendless and not speak the language either. You’re then stuck because of your child. Not a potential situation I would risk.

You need to fix your life in the UK first and work out how you’ve ended up living somewhere you hate and why you have no friends.

My eldest lived abroad for six years. We missed him terribly. Had face time at weekends.

Perhaps your parents or at least mum could visit you now and again. You can visit too.

Give your child a good life that's who you owe.

I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

But, respectfully, what makes you think this will be any different in Germany? Have you lived outside of the UK before? Do you speak fluent German? Does your partner? Are you going to turn into someone more outgoing in a new environment? Have you thought through the consequences of being unable to work because you don't have the language skills? Have you thought through the consequences of having a child in another country and potentially being unable to leave should your relationship break down?

I've moved around a fair bit internationally, and speak several languages well, and I've got good, from practice, at making friends -- I know I can move and settle in other places. I'm not convinced you have thought this through.

It strikes me that your parents and brother aren't actually the issue here.

I don’t see the point in moving to another part of the UK. Sounds horrendous.

It’d be even shitter to relocate within the UK. Still no supportive family around but still close enough to be pestered to move back when my parents want me to. Still paying extortionate childcare, and probably even more expensive to buy a house. Still shit weather and same rushed pace of life. The UK is a mess these days. People from my partner’s historically poor country in Eastern Europe are actually moving back for a better quality of life!

It would have all of the negatives of the UK but none of the positives that Germany could provide.

I’d be happy to learn a new language alongside staying home with my child. My partner’s sister did cleaning and hospitality gigs when she first moved whilst learning the language and could get me something like that if need be, I don’t mind that sort of job as I don’t have a career in the UK either.

OP, Germany isn’t the ends of the earth! Just as you visit there for 3 weeks now, you can still visit home or your parents visit you. As long as you don’t sink your whole savings into your plans until you are sure you want to stay, it makes sense to give it a go. You can always come back home if you want to, but it does sound as though you will be happier moving. Your parents can’t expect you to stay just for them. Yes, it’s hard, I would hate it if my kids decided to emigrate but I wouldn’t dissuade them if they had a good plan. It’s a good opportunity and one you can come back from if it doesn’t work out

I have spent 2 years in Canada alone in my late teens and adored it. It’s odd that some people have read my post and seem to see me as very meek and incapable. Is it because I don’t have a high flying career?

Sorry edited to add you've already explained please ignore

I’d go but you should get married first to protect yourself and so you’ll have the same rights as your husband who is an EU citizen

It’s Germany not Australia. You can be home in a few hours for a fairly small amount of money if needed.

you have to do what right for you and your family. In the U.K. you probably will end up caring for your parents and brother while your own child is still primary school aged. If this isn’t the future you want then you have every right to move for a better life for yourselves and your child. Don’t let others guilt you into not following your dreams. You only get one life.

Just go.
Seems like it cannot be worse.
Your parents make their own choices.
Have a plan B but you young and it s only two hours flight.
90% of kids 3 to 6 are in day care nursery kindergarten. They dont just stay home then start school later !