To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

Let’s all remain eternally single then and never attempt a successful relationship with anybody.

Shall we all go and live in single-sex communes?

I would be aware that Germany is having a lot of problems as well at the moment.

Hi @tangotingo
i would definitely definitely go - no hesitation.

It's your life. You only have one.

its only Hamburg - I've been on work day trips to Germany - you can easily nip to parents for a weekend .

Good luck !

The point is OP, no one knows what is going to happen in the future. That’s why you plan for the worst but hope for the best.

Go. It boils down to what is best for you, your relationship, your partner, your child's future. It's not like it's the other side of the world either. Your parents will come to terms with it- we did when one of ours emigrated, and that's much further than Germany. If it doesn't work out, you can come back.

You've outlined about a dozen reasons why it's the best thing for your family. It will be hard conversation but that doesn't mean it's not the right thing.

Neighbours lived in Germany for 20 odd years. Raised their children there. They had a good life. All learnt the language. Don't regret it at all.

I appreciate that, and that’s what I want to do.

Is it though ? What’s the alternative? Decide to live 10 mins down the road from your parents just in case your marriage ends ?

Go, but go with your eyes wide open.

English is quite widely spoken in Germany, especially in the cities. That said, you will need to learn German, and some people find language learning very difficult. Your child will learn German in childcare. You’ll likely need to deal with the authorities and services in German at least some of the time. Germany does have high levels of immigration so is generally well set up for interpreters, etc, but that’s not a long term solution.

You will probably mostly socialise with other immigrants, with English as a common language, whilst you are learning German. But you will have to make a real, active effort to put yourself out there and join groups and meet strangers. Be honest with yourself - will you do that?

OP - you should not feel guilty at all! Germany is only a couple of hours away. You can visit regularly. And you can also do video calls over WhatsApp etc to stay connected. Do not let your mother manipulate you. You get one life. This could be a great opportunity for you.

Having said that.. I would recommend having the baby in the UK first. And really thrash out an agreement with your DP about what happens in a worst-case scenario. What if you hate it, and want to come home? What if he refuses to give permission for you to travel with your child? You will essentially be trapped over there, unable to leave - or you'll have no choice but to leave your child behind.

I also think it's a bad idea to go, and not have any plans for work. You will settle much faster if you have a job and a routine of your own. So maybe spend some time thinking about courses and skills you can develop that will make you employable once you're there. My worry is that you'll go, stay at home, feel isolated and then get depressed. Give yourself options.

Could the two of you trial a month in Hamburg before emigrating properly? That might also give you an idea of whether or not a more permanent move could be worth it.

Good luck! Be brave. It could be an amazing thing. Just make sure you plan it properly and have a back-up plan in case it doesn't work out.

Please go.
You have clearly thought it through. The pre school years are the ideal time to try out living somewhere else and you could not be clearer in your reasoning.
Your parents chose to have you late in life, but that does not mean that these issues should be visited on you.
Make your life full of happiness, put down roots. With regard to brother, what would their plan have been in if you had not been born?

I think you should go, but with your eyes wide open. You should also perhaps make some short and medium term plans. Short term - perhaps 12-18 months (e.g. have baby in the UK, get married/registered, start learning German or your partner's home language, save up money, look seriously into areas in Hamburg that you might want to move to, industries, see if there are any qualifications that would be worth getting, or applying for jobs that will value your English language...), and then Medium term (perhaps 2-5 years), where you plan to be, location, job etc. And go from there.

You definitely need some sort of legal status if you want to go over as a family unit - girlfriend/mother of baby won't cut it.

Lots of Germans speak English, and who knows you may be able to 'teach English' in a school or something... maybe look into getting some sort of qualification in that area. Or working in one of the industries but where they would value your native language status. Someone I know moved to France (having been educated in UK) and although they could speak English, they valued his native language status and welcomed him with open arms. In the meantime, he also brushed up on his written French.

It sounds like you want to leave more because of your own family situation (brother, parents) - and that's fine... but make sure that you are leaving for the right reasons. It doesn't matter what we think... we aren't living your life. You just need to be sure, and clear that you are leaving for the 'right reasons'. Otherwise you're just running away from one bad situation to another unknown and potentially bad situation.

All the best.

I would go in less than a heartbeat, in your position. Hamburg is a great city.

This your life. Take the opportunities you so very clearly want to. You are not your parents keeper, and nor are you your brother’s. You don’t need anyone’s permission, or approval, to live that life you want to.

@IPoopRainblows moving to another country with a partner and child has greater implications for OP if she splits up with partner than if she moved anywhere else in this country, and that shouidn’t be ignored. Doesn’t mean don’t do it but there is a risk she may have to leave her child behind or split access between 2 countries

Germany is a lovely country and 2/3 hours flight depending where you are.
I say go for it, its a great opportunity and not too far ro go home and visit.
Its not the other side of the world!!

I think it’s the case of people wanting to be in a familiar environment in case things go wrong, which I do understand. However I know the UK incredibly well being British, and I have major issues with it which I could discuss at length, but I will avoid doing that here.

I would of course research Germany too in great detail and I’m sure there’s all sorts I don’t have a bloody clue about, but it appears to be a much more family-friendly society.

A lot of the people commenting have never moved abroad or been to Germany.
I’m from a different European country but also lived in Germany and have family there. I’d totally go for it, I don’t see why you shouldn’t try.

Hamburg is a very expensive place though and weather very similar to the south of England. On rhe plus side most Germans speak English (while you learn) childcare is very cheap, schools start late and it’s a good social system. The health system is excellent (dare I say probably better than NHS).
trains are very cheap and it’s easy to travel in Germany and Europe without flying.

It was the 'why have a child with him in the first place' comment.

As it happens I live in the UK but am from a European country and my parents live in Australia - I know what it's like to emigrate.

But you need to think it through from all angles. "I'm not even going to think about that or I won't go anywhere" - that's not wise.

I moved abroad just before DD1 was born, to somewhere I didn’t know anyone locally but did speak the language. ExH was at work all day and I was on my own with baby DD. I also had to stay in the country when I split up with ExH, and I’m still there now nearly 20 years later and will probably never go ‘home’.

So basically some of the things that people are warning against in this thread did happen BUT I wouldn’t necessarily advise against moving abroad, just… I don’t actually know what to advise because sometimes in life you do things that are objectively mistakes on paper but actually turn out fine.

If you go, have some kind of a career plan, even if that starts with signing up for German lessons. Also make sure you do all the paperwork to be allowed to work so you can get a job if you ever want to.

Exactly!

it seems like you both want this, your mum can’t guilt trip you and you have to do what’s good for your family.

OP, respectfully, you're clearly desperate to get out of the UK before you get roped in as carer to your brother, and while i absolutely understand your reluctance to be forced into this role, it's making you irrational. You've decided the UK is shit, you think your area is awful but are completely against relocating within the UK, you are friendless in your own culture with no language barrier, but think this will change in a country whose culture and language are unfamiliar to you and where you've only ever been on holiday and where you plan to be a SAHP, you're planning to raise a child in another culture you've not had much exposure to, while being economically and emotionally dependent on someone else and that is going to make you very vulnerable should that relationship ever become less than stellar. You're expecting an awful lot from your partner's sister in terms of readymade friend, godparent, family, based on you both being pregnant at the same time and her considering moving to a city where your partner could work.

I mean, I'm a comparatively experienced international mover who is good at languages, adjusting to a new place, and hitting the ground running. I speak functional German and have family in Berlin of whom I'm very fond, and am an EU citizen so could move there -- but I would be thinking far more carefully about it than you are.

It's Germany. 90 minutes on a plane. I could probably be in Berlin from Glasgow quicker than I could drive to an in-laws house in the Midlands of England.

So many nay-sayers, I bet hardly of them have lived abroad!

Go OP! I moved to another European country with my husband and we had our children there. Yes, we had to learn the language but with so many language apps that’s accessible. We’re back in the UK for work but look back fondly on those years and the children feel like they have a second culture.

Germany, and Hamburg in particular, is wonderful and hardly very far at all from the UK.

As the saying goes, you regret the things you don’t do…

@tangotingo you replied to several of my posts but haven’t replied to any questions about work visas. I can only presume you don’t know the answer.