To be annoyed about the stickers?

[NerdySnoozer]

DS7 is in Primary 2 (equivalent of year 1) and his school has a toothbrushing lady to help the children brush their teeth after lunch.
The tooth brush lady has been handing out stickers once a week to all the children. Today my son has come home very upset as he was told he won’t be getting a sticker this week as he didn’t want to brush his teeth today. (He’s a bit reluctant at home too, but we manage. )Messaged teacher for more info, apparently about once a week he decides he’d prefer to not to brush. He’s not the best at speaking up so sometimes will just pretend he hasn’t heard and ignore instructions. The lady got annoyed today and said if he didn’t come to do them, he wouldn’t be allowed a sticker on Friday. Class teacher doesn’t seem to think it’s a problem, says the lady supplies her own stickers and prizes and isn’t employed by the school, just visits as part of her job. She can’t tell her who to give stickers to and doesn’t want to ask her not to give them out at all. Got the impression that the teacher thinks the children shouldn’t have any choice in the matter and need to comply or be punished. Normally I’d just leave it as school is school and just support at home but I’m finding myself really annoyed about it. DH thinks I’m upset over nothing and am probably just hormonal and if I’m that bothered I can withdraw consent for him to brush at school.
Am I unreasonable to think the bloody stickers just shouldn’t be used as a punisment?

Shouldn’t be brushing your teeth straight after eating so I hope that’s not the case here. They need to leave at least half an hour.

Honestly OP. This is the internet. Don't you know you need to do a massive flounce and complain we are all being mean to you and just want to withold stickers from a small child for the fun of it. 😉

Back with a wee update and some answers for questions.
I briefly apologised to class teacher this morning, for wasting her time with the question. She was very gracious.

I did give cake, which actually we often do give a wee treat on last day of term etc so probably less dramatic for them then it may seem to some of you and it made me feel a bit better.

They brush after play time at lunch, which for most children will be 30mins+ and in the grand scheme of things doesn’t worry me too much. I’m sure they’d leave it longer if it were an option.

In a shock turn of events, DS got a sticker anyway 😂😳
According to DS the lady said she was going to give him one this time because she likes him and thinks he’s a good kid but it’s his last chance and if he ignores her again, she won’t do it again. She had him practice asking if he could come in 5 minutes 😅 Mortified!
Am firmly resolved to remind him before he returns to school that I do expect him to brush his teeth and if he chooses not to, he should expect to be disappointed on sticker day.
Spent the walk home feeling very embarrassed and very grateful for the kind, lovely people working in our school.

DH just dared me to write another email complaining that they didn’t follow through on consequences.

Thanks for all your responses and for bringing me back to reality.
Still not a fan of rewards based behaviour models but I do recognise I got this one wrong!

If you are getting het up over the fact he didn’t get a reward because he didn’t do what was required to get the reward then you are no example to your child

he is learning that actions have consequences. A good life lesson for anyone

You are just making yourself sound stupid.

The word 'coerce' has come up a few times and I'm a little baffled that people don't expect children to be made to do things at school aka coercion. When there's 30+ kids in a class and they are all supposed to learn, they can't all be exercising their free will without total chaos and zero progress.

These students aren't being 'shamed' into brushing their teeth; they're being offered a sticker if they do it. It will be a lot more unpleasant for them to have teeth taken out at the dentist later if they don't do it - that's a far more invasive, upsetting and traumatic experience for sure. And shame will come up if their breath smells bad and peers point it out.

My kids have been 'coerced' this term into doing Games outside in the mud and rain and they really don't love it. But the exercise is good for them, and so is the experience of doing something hard that they'd rather not and getting through it and finding out it's not that bad or so big of a deal after all. Then they come home and have a bath and a hot drink and enjoy relaxing. Life is about balance, not only ever doing exactly what you feel like.

CAKE!!!!

Dont you know the havoc that plays with the teeth!!!!

You’re being unreasonable.
Choices - clean teeth - sticker

• don’t clean teeth - no sticker.

At 7 your child should be able to work this out for himself unless he has special needs? Do you really not get this or are you being over protective. With kindness , wise up !

Reward based models are the only ones schools can use nowadays. Better the carrot than the stick!

Absolutely, I agree that by sending your child to a state school you need to accept there will be coercion. It’s inevitable in a state school.

I don’t agree that every child in a school needs to be coerced to brush their teeth, especially not a child who has adequate support at home to maintain their oral hygiene.

I recognise the intent of the programme. My problem with it is not that I am insensitive to the support that some children need. If a family is struggling to the extent that the parents are not able to support children to do a basic care task such as toothbrushing, it is usually indicative of a wider problem in the family system that runs much deeper than oral hygiene.

I haven’t heard any talk from the government about providing real support or resources for these families. Children’s centres are shutting their doors, health visitors are spread so thinly that some families have no access, care for mental health is virtually inaccessible in some areas. Many parents struggling to make ends meet do not have the resources to feed their children a decent diet.

Most parents want to provide adequate care for their children, and given the proper support they usually do. A functional family is much better for children than brushing their teeth once a day at school. Ignorance is in the way the government currently parades around virtue signalling programmes such as daily toothbrushing and free breakfast clubs, whilst ignoring the roots of these problems and doing nothing to actually support these children or their families.

Your child is 7. Unless he is very young for his age due to SEN or something, he should understand the consequences being laid out for him. Brushing his teeth should be non negotiable so in your shoes I would not complain to the teacher and be that parent, and instead reinforce the importance of teeth brushing to your child. Barring any SEN at 7 years old he gets it.

On a side note, you’re meant to wait around 30 minutes after eating to brush your teeth. Otherwise you risk damaging the enamel. How long after lunch does she come?

Personally I’d rather get good habits of morning and night than worry about a lunchtime extra brushing.

There's coercion in private schools too if you're defining it as expecting children to follow rules whether they want to or not. Kids won't want to learn every lesson or do every task they're set. I really don't think it's a bad thing that they do it anyway. We can't and shouldn't go through life only ever doing exactly what we want all the time.

In this case, it's very dramatic to describe the toothbrush woman as coercing kids - she isn't shoving a toothbrush in their mouths, she's offering a sticker if they do it. It's pretty mild. The kids have more choice over participating in the toothbrushing than eg a Maths lesson. They just won't get a sticker if they don't do it. They can decide if the sticker is worth it to them or not.

I don’t disagree with any of that, I said “state school” because there are a few private schools with alternative ethos (eg democratic schools, to some degree Montessori etc) that probably genuinely minimise coercion. I didn’t want to include those settings by making a sweeping statement including all schools, but certainly it does apply to all state schools as I don’t think it’s possible to run a state school without using coercive methods.

Anyway, my point wasn’t that I expect state schools to operate without coercion, it was that I disagree with the use of coercion to gain compliance for this programme. This is because these types of programmes are being masqueraded as a solution to much wider systemic problems when they won’t even touch the sides.

Whether it’s “mild” or not is irrelevant as obviously if I’m sending my child to state school participating in a maths lesson is integral. Toothbrushing is not. Toothbrushing is a notoriously difficult activity for many students with sensory issues, so definitely not “mild” for some anyway.

So yeah, on that basis if my child didnt want to participate I’d happily opt my child out and buy them whatever stickers they want.

Society mainly runs on coercion. How many people pay tax because they inherently want to, because they believe it’s the right thing to do, for the good of it for society overall? Some, sure. But how many would NOT pay any tax, if there was no consequence, no fines etc, I’d say a great many. So, most people pay tax via coercion. That’s one example, everyday life is full of examples, it’s how a society operates essentially. Yet, not rewarding a very young child (who doesn’t yet have the cognitive ability to understand dental hygiene, cavities etc), with a sticker if they won’t brush their teeth is a thing of outrage due to coercion. Only on Mumsnet!

School is about getting kids ready for the world as well as 101 things landing on them, more as time goes by.
See this as very important as some children, maybe not in your son's school ,aren't encouraged to brush their teeth at all.
You would have to be in complete isolation not to know that tooth decay is high in this country. Dentists are difficult to see as adults so keeping teeth as cared for as possible is more important than ever, but negotiable in your home.
Pick your battles, but toothing is a battle I would pick.

It sounds like a fantastic initiative. I bet it’s the one time in a day some kids actually have their teeth brushed. Adding something positive such as a sticker reward isn’t a bad thing.

The reward system only works for my DS 14, and only ever has, if you don't tell him he doesn't get the reward if he doesn't do the thing. As soon as you say that, he convinces himself he can't do it, and stops trying. So a sticker for brushing his teeth all week would only have worked if no one had said "if you don't brush your teeth today, you won't get a sticker." We're still working on this.

Your DH sounds ace! 😂😂😂