To ask friend how she will repay

[BigMommasHouse]

I have just been made to feel like a bad person!

over the last few years my friend has had a bad time with employment/relationships etc and got in to a bit of a debt hole with utilities bills, council tax etc. They have addressed this and put a lot of debt on Step Change.

There have been times when she has had no money for food, car insurance (to get to work) vets bills for her cat etc. she has no family and literally had no other options. I lent her money over the last few years when she was absolutely desperate. Clearly a loan to be repaid when she could.

Today she told me she has done a load of overtime and has enough money to go on a holiday.

She has also been buying a lot of stuff like new carpets and house plants and other non essential stuff.

I asked her today what the plan was to pay back some of this money. She made me feel like I was a bad person to ask saying that it was a terrible shock and she would have to go for a walk, didn’t want to fall out etc. I haven’t demanded the money back just asked for a plan or a picture of when I would be repaid. Made it clear that I didn’t want all the money at once.

I realise that lending money is a mine field but I genuinely thought I was doing a good thing for a friend who was at rock bottom.

Any advice on how to navigate this would be much appreciated

What kind of person books a holiday without settling debts? Amazing how’s she’s gaslit the op into feeling like a bad one when she is the horrible person.

I think a lot depends on exactly how it was "clearly a loan to be repaid when she could". It was clear to you, but was it clear to her? Was the word "lend" ever used, or anything said such as "I’m sure you’ll pay me back when you can afford it"? If not, it’s possible she really thought you were giving her the money as gifts, especially if you’re well-off. She would still be a cf, and still ought to pay you back now she can afford it if she has any integrity, but it might be more understandable.

But if that was the case then the friend's response is to say "Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realise it was a loan; I'll have to think about how to pay it back"

not to call the OP a bad person, "need" to take a walk to calm down and to hint that they will fall out over it.

Yes, I agree that’s what ought to happen.

I think it depends on if you need the money and if you want to maintain the friendship.

But never expect a loan of money back honestly - lending money to friends is the quickest way to destroy a relationship.

Firstly - ignore the meanies. Mumsnet is filled with selfish people who wouldn't pee on their best mate if they were on fire. You did a kind thing, you are not a mug, and thank heavens for people who help their friends and families out in hard times. Shame on all you mumsnetters who would watch a friend starve and their cat die if you could afford to lend them some cash to help out.

Assuming you value your friendship...

Just be kind and patient but be consistent that you value your friendship, you value her, but you have stuff on and do need the money back. Gently remind that friendship goes both ways - you helped her out but now you need 'helping' (by not making it hard!) in return.

Tbh this would be an ex friend for me.

Taking money and not repaying it AND actually guilt tripping you when you ask about repayment.

What you have there OP is not a friend

It’s a leach.

Lets hope she's gone on that walk to work out how to repay you OP, otherwise she isn't a good friend, she's a CF and I wouldn't be having any more to do with her.

Surely no one just goes around giving money away every time a friend needs and expects never to see any of the money ever again? Or maybe I just have the wrong friends!

This. As hard as it is.

Any lender (credit card companies, car financing etc) should never lend money unless it is clear the person has the means to pay it back. Anything else is unethical.

If your friend was at the stage of borrowing off friends, it means they were getting turned away from everywhere else. Which means they have no way of paying you back. Which (normally) means they are crap with money**. You are unlikely to ever see that money again.

Write the money off. I would also struggle to continue the friendship. And never lend to friends again.

** There are many people that don't have much money who aren't crap with money - but they aren't usually the ones looking to borrow/steal off friends...

Really? you'd pay your friends vet bills, car insurance and for food and not expect to ever see any of it again even when they were doing well enough to afford holidays?

Can I be your friend?

That’s all good and well if that’s how you decide to go about it but OP loaned her friend the money. She didn’t give the money she loaned the money…. There is a difference

There are 'takers' in the world and your friend is obviously one of them. It didn't even cross her mind to pay you back. You gave it, she takes it.

It's going to be hard, but rather than let this drive you insanely mad through anger, write-off what's owed and know to never, ever lend a penny again, no matter how destitute someone is. Only ever give money you're prepared to lose.

This has happened to me, it's made me have a much thicker skin. I no longer allow people to pull my heart-strings to get what they want. If I want to give (not lend) money I will. If I'm asked for money, I say no.

She isn’t planning to pay you back, hence the guilt trip
id assume friendship is over and write it off, which I know is harsh

This is why I never lend money. Most people hear pay it back when you can and it becomes their last priority. They think that really you don't expect the money back.

Oh dear.
I think your best bet now is to ask her to set up a standing order for a small amount at the beginning of every month (or just after her payday) for as long as it takes to pay it back. She clearly hasn't budgeted for the cost of repaying the loan because she's still struggling with managing her money, but at least you would get some back that way.

Did you make it clear the money was a loan?

Can you prove it?

She obviously never had any intention of paying you back. She's not a friend, she's used you like an ATM.

and most jobs wont give you one

I never lend money either. I may give someone a gift of money but I don't expect to see it again even if the person insists that they will pay it back asap. If anyone paid it back that would be a bonus, but they never have!

Stable ground is getting your affairs in order - i.e. out of debt. So first on the friends list should be paying her rent, bills and anyone else she borrowed from.

Then she's got her shit together and firmly on stable ground!
Then the holiday and furniture.

OP shouldn't even have to be put in a position to have to mention this debt, and she probably wouldn't have at all until the holiday and furniture were mentioned.

OP's friend isn't a friend any of us would choose to have. OP should choose not to have this leech around her and just write-off of the bill.

The temerity to say 'I don't want to fall out' to someone you owe money to when they ask for a repayment date after visibly spending on non-essentials. I don't think I've come across many people with more of a brass neck than your friend OP! That sounds like a not so subtle threat to me. 'Keep pushing and not only will I cut you off, you won't see a penny of your money anyway'.

You shouldn't have had to even ask, so the fact it got to that point shows she is someone you should never lend a penny to again.

How much did you give her?

It is not at all clear whether it was made clear that it was a series of loans.

@BigMommasHouse - can you answer the questions that have been repeatedly asked by many people who responded to your post?

OP - I would send her a message saying "Hi Friend, sorry my question took you by surprise. Well done for working so hard and getting so much overtime and I am so happy to see you feeling more confident about your finances. I asked to raise the question of when you might be able to start paying back some of the money I have been lending you, I'm not asking you to empty your account in one fell swoop! Anyway, let me know what you think, I have always been happy to support you as needed but it was clear that the money was a loan, which adds up to £XX and I am not exactly rolling in it myself. XX Your friend"

I wouldn't start a row or aggressive exchange yet because that will probably put paid to any chance of getting the ££ back.

If she comes back with an argument say "I think it was fair enough for me to assume you are OK for money now as you were telling me about your holidays and carpets! "

She's a self-entitled user/loser and your friendship is over. The sob stories she has given you over the years may well have resulted from her character - which she has now shown you. I'd keep pushing to be repaid and if she doesn't start paying you back, cut her off. Even if a loan as such wasn't discussed, anyone with moral integrity would pay you back.