Why should Starmer resign? I don’t get it

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I’m not a big fan, but I don’t understand why people believe he should go. Yes he appointed Mandelson as US ambassador when he knew about Epstein’s conviction and that Mandelson was still friends with him - which was wrong IMO.

BUT - people have known that was the case for over a year haven’t they? And Starmer got rid of him as ambassador as soon as he was first mentioned in the Epstein files last year.

Now all this extra stuff has come to light about Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein in the last few days and of course it is dreadful, but how is that Starmer’s fault? Aren’t these disclosures (due to the release of further documents from the Epstein files) as much news to him as they are to everyone else? I don’t think anyone knew the extent of Epstein’s depravity until recently apart from those involved - I don’t see how Starmer could have been expected to know.

Can someone with more understanding of the situation please enlighten me?

I can’t because I see it exactly as you do. But I do think he’s too tarnished by a whole succession of missteps to continue.

He's either a liar or incompetent

But you're right, where's Trumps heat?

Alex Jones could have told you the extent of Epsteins depravity. So could a lot of maligned conspiracy theorists

I agree OP .

I am sick to back teeth if hearing about bloody Epstein.

It just doesn’t seem fair when he hasn’t (as far as I can see) done anything wrong? Would MI5/MI6 have known the extent of Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein and what Epstein was really like at the time Starmer appointed Mandelson as ambassador?

It’s very interesting when perception of information shifts from gossip to conspiracy theory to fact.

There have been a lot of ‘person x in photo with Epstein, heads must roll’, headlines, and ‘person x may have been introduced to Epstein’.
That means absolutely nothing, it’s just mud slinging.

Andrew Windsor Whatsit may well be a pedophile, but there hasn’t been evidence until possibly recently. Just mud slinging based on US laws.

Now stuff is being released that looks much more concrete and much more damning.
And now everyone is supposed to have known all along.

I’m confused about who should have known better- apart from the series of rich men who were flying sex workers around for sex. Some of those sex workers were groomed and vulnerable, it would seem. Were they all? Is sex ever work or is it always abuse? Lots of mixed messages.

His judgment is absolutely shite. Not a great look for a prime minister.

I agree with you OP - the person who lied is Mandelson, not Starmer.

Having said that - of all the people that he could have appointed to be the UK Ambassadar to the USA he chose Mandelson and you really do have to ask why?

Because its a question of judgement. Mandleson has always been dodgy has fuck. Why not simply appoint someone respectable as ambassador? Starmer is a clown.

It's going to depend how much he knew. People seem to be assuming Starmer knew everything, but it's likely he didn't - I don't think anyone could have, or it would have been flagged as a huge security risk. He most likely just knew Mandleson and Epstein were friends, and that gave Mandleson power and an edge with people like Trump. And people knew Epstein was grubby, dodgy as fuck, but not the depths of the depravity. There may have been rumours, but there has only been hard evidence for a very short time.

Mandleson sending Epstein government information during Brown's government is way beyond anything anyone suspected - I get the impression everyone in politics is genuinely shocked.

I think they want him to go and this is their opportunity. Quite honestly given his poll ratings I can see why they’d try to take advantage of the situation.

I don’t think Starmer is a bad person and feel quite sorry for him really, but something about the current leadership isn’t working and needs to change.

I think Starmer put Mandelson in that job because he thought M would be able to handle Trump. Clearly they moved in similar circles for a while. That isn’t to say T or M were innocent or guilty of any or all allegations, but the Venn diagram of Trump, Mandelson and Epstein does appear to have some significant overlap.

Having said that - of all the people that he could have appointed to be the UK Ambassadar to the USA he chose Mandelson and you really do have to ask why?

I imagine because Mandelson is the ultimate smooth talker and had what it took to charm Trump? (Just a guess obviously!)

Poor you, harder to be a victim.

Op his judgement was terrible in appointing Mandelson.

The public gets what the public wants.

At the moment no one really knows how much he knew and when.

I don't think a lot of people in power realised how much the whole Epstein thing would blow up.

So the most optimistic way of putting it would be that he took a gamble at a time when he knew incomplete information, but had some indication it might be a bad idea. And now a whole lot more has come to light.

Is it his fault ? Well maybe for taking the gamble in the first place. It also might be looked on as a harsh outcome. But he knows the rules and has to play by them whether they are fair or not.

He spent enough time putting the boot into Johnson. If it had been someone on the other side in this position he would be clamoring for their resignation in the same way that everyone is now clamoring for his.

People have got addicted to the drama, and the turnover. Prior to this gov, we had 5 Tory PM's in less than10 years, with endless gossip, crimial cases etc, which destabilised us further after Brexit. Someone is benefitiing from whipping up more destabilisation - Reform Ltd and Mr Putin, and Trump.

I agree with you, OP.

Mandelson is clearly a liar and should never have been appointed, that was an error of judgement but not a resignation offence to my mind.

Trump too is connected to the Epstein case. Why is his relationship with Epstein not more often examined in the media, alongside Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and Peter Mandelson? I can only think that it is because he is the US President, is as corrupt as fuck and is in overall control of what is released or redacted.

If I were to choose who I wished to see resign or be booted out of office I would rather it was Trump, not Starmer.

It seems like being in government these days is more about fighting scandals than actually governing.

Maybe we should be thankful. Just imagine the damage they might do if they actually had time to govern the country.

Of course they would have bloody known!!

Yes, it’s this. Why choose someone so dodgy? It points to being devoid of scruples ie hes dodgy, himself.

Plenty of governing going on: Warm Homes Plan, renter's rights, getting rid of two child cap, Covid Corruption Commission, I could go on. Won't be found in the pages of newspapers of course, but only bad news and gossip counts.

If that is the case then presumably Starmer would have been warned. But he said he didn’t know the extent of Epstein’s depravity. Do you think he’s lying?

Am I right in thinking you’re referencing the
person who claimed that the school shooting did not happen and that bereaved parents were actors?

That person?

Starmer's whole manifesto is build on the fact that Labour would be different, transparent, not like the sleazy Conservative Party who were full of MPs with no moral compass.

He promotes himself as a man of integrity who will always put the country first.

He already had a very competent US ambassador who Trump respected and instead he ignored information and red flags from our security services about Mandy and appointed him anyway.

Starmer knew Mandleson lies down with dogs and is covered with fleas but went ahead with giving him such a prominent position - our sleaze to deal with the US sleaze.

I think the real question is why Peter Mandleson was so powerful. Why is he calling the shots in this country and is reappointed when continuously sacked?

I don't understand why anyone thinks he should stay? He should have resigned by now. Whether it is a very poor lack of judgement on Starmers part, or that he knew what Mandy was all about and chose to ignore it, either way he is not fit to be PM.

This is just same sh!t different party. Their own dramas and internal bullshit taking precedence over the issues we have going on in the country. None of them are fit to run this country. I despair.