Why should Starmer resign? I don’t get it

[working9]

I’m not a big fan, but I don’t understand why people believe he should go. Yes he appointed Mandelson as US ambassador when he knew about Epstein’s conviction and that Mandelson was still friends with him - which was wrong IMO.

BUT - people have known that was the case for over a year haven’t they? And Starmer got rid of him as ambassador as soon as he was first mentioned in the Epstein files last year.

Now all this extra stuff has come to light about Mandelson’s relationship with Epstein in the last few days and of course it is dreadful, but how is that Starmer’s fault? Aren’t these disclosures (due to the release of further documents from the Epstein files) as much news to him as they are to everyone else? I don’t think anyone knew the extent of Epstein’s depravity until recently apart from those involved - I don’t see how Starmer could have been expected to know.

Can someone with more understanding of the situation please enlighten me?

@Topseyt123 "Trump too is connected to the Epstein case. Why is his relationship with Epstein not more often examined in the media, alongside Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and Peter Mandelson?"

I expect Trump had the intelligence not to put anything in writing that could incriminate himself, ever.

Starmer was told about Mandelson in detail by the Secret Services. It is their job to know these things. Usually they get it right.
Starmer then sacked a perfectly good and capable experienced Diplomat who had been in Washington and New York at the United Nations for years. Dame Karen Pierce was well respected and well connected. She also had a tough gig in Afghanistan.
But not liking women much Starmer installed his mate.

As things stand, I agree with you, but I think it will depend on what we learn about the vetting process - how much KS actually knew and whether or not he ignored warnings against the appointment.

There's a lot of noise right now, but we don't yet know the full facts. Personally, I'm reserving judgment until we do, but there are lots of people who want KS gone for other reasons who will just use this whole mess as a pretext.

It’s a question of judgment. Remember this was Mandelson’s third comeback so it was hardly a surprise. It’s the fact a chance was taken on Mandelson when strong suspicions were had that there was more to come out about the friendship. Proper intelligence level due diligence wasn’t done, they rushed him into post anyway. Total misjudgment.

Hmm okay, if she was already in place and crucially, able to handle Trump then why remove her? That seems like a bad decision.

Agree with you OP.

Look at when the conservative MP broke the Commons code of conduct and BJ's response was: let's get rid of the rules then.

Just trying to score political pot shots. Mandelson is a sleaze, he's been sacked and investigated. Rightly so.

I am not a labour voter, I am in Scotland. But I do like how some things have been handled recently by Westminster. This should not disrupt that.

Really?

Mandelson knows people in JD Vance’s circle as well as Trump’s. I can absolutely see why he was appointed. It was an attempt to manage what was always going to be a very tricky relationship under Trump.

It was a judgement call. A risk was taken and now that so much more has come out, it’s not worked out. But it’s pretty clear why he was appointed.

Bingo.

He could have told you fuck all about actual abuse, he could tell you plenty about the imaginary carry on of the globalists which he used Epstein as a vehicle to project his fantasised satanic rituals on to his imagined enemies.

He's fucking scum and so is anyone who cites him as a source

It seem Starmer wanted to release the vetting process but is unable to due to the police investigation? I wonder when they will be made public - it could be a while presumably.

Because they knew Mandelson would slime round Trump better - it’s his talent at toadying up to the rich and unpleasant. So they held their nose, pretended not to see the obvious and appointed him anyway. And the rest is probably the worst political scandal of the century…

What’s more interesting is the revelation that Starmer was a sacrificial grey man to save the labour party- and it worked. Mandelson and mcsweeny don’t care if Starmer goes, he’s served his purpose now.

but left a decent man screwed over- or maybe Starmer accepts this end as the outcome of the opportunity. Politics is a dirty game right?

and he obviously appointed him because he is a talented politician and could handle (and did handle) trump. The international relations angle has been successful. How much Starmer had control of that, who knows

That was my thought but another poster has pointed out someone was already in place who was good in the role and liked by Trump.

also I think we have to be reasonable about the “vetting” process.

how could it have included access to classified American DOJ files? These were personal emails, not things that could be easily accessed

There’s a very broad legally binding obligation to release all files related to Mandelson and Epstein. This isn’t going away soon. It’ll take time but release can fill a lot of press.

As far as I'm aware, there is no information currently in the public domain which details exactly what KS was and wasn't told about PM during the vetting process, so I'm interested in your statement that the intelligence services told KS about PM in detail prior to the appointment. Can you confirm your sources for this claim?

It seems to me that, either you have access to insider info which hasn't yet been published. Which would make you a massive risk to our national security if you are reporting confidential information on MN before it is published.

Or you are just making it up.

I suspect the latter, but if I'm wrong, do feel free to share your sources.

@working9 For me primarily because he's lying through his teeth. The extent of Mandelson's relationship with EPstein was public knowledge from at least 2023 - Financial Times article here https://archive.is/19g6R.
That's what was in the public domain. Starmer will, in addition, have had MI5/MI6 information.

Despite this, as said above, he forced through a political appointment for what is usual a prestigious career diplomatic post, replacing the respected diplomat who was already there.

He is now trying to say it was Mandelson's fault 'because he lied in vetting'.

It was not known that mandelson was insider trading/ sending classified information to Epstein

No, but we're very optics driven as a society, so that alone should have stopped him making the appointment of someone who'd had any kind of link with Epstein.

I think Starmer overall hasn't shown particularly great judgement whether it's with this or with all the u turning. Both things show he hasn't got whatever it takes to lead well.

I’m happy to keep hearing about it until the men who took part in systematically abusing young women and girls get the justice they deserve.

There are many, many men in the Epstein files who’d like nothing more than for it all to go away (not least our very own Andrew, Prince among men) but I’m glad it’s not!

If Starmer is “feeling the heat”, why wasn’t Boris Johnson roasted to a fucking cinder long before he was dragged out kicking and screaming? Tory press, and mates in high places?

He was taken out. Starmer is digging in.

Such a poor excuse. This is it.

I do

Trump can actually, on video and tape make fun of disabled people and admit to grabbing women by the pussy and get away with it scot free. Anything like this is water off a ducks back.

Trumps people had the opportunity to doctor the files.

Trump has a vested interest in creating instability in the UK.
Trump would love his buddy Farage in power so he can privatise the NHS and flog us crap chlorinated chicken.

Who does MI5/6 etc. report to, and what about GCHQ?

Maybe their monitoring systems are reserved solely for foreign spies or something.