Keir starmer is dead in the water

[Bertiebiscuit]

The UK cannot have a prime minister who gave a plum job to a man when all the time he knew that Mandelson was still close friends with an ex-con who was convicted for trafficking children for sexual abuse. Starmer is destroying the reputation of the UK, he is an embarrassment and shoukd resign, if not the Labour party should demand his resignation.

Not sure I needed to know, it's caused confusion.

Maybe @EasternStandard will tell you not to bring up things from other threads, as she did to me.

I was perfectly happy with the discussion with the PP. And then you got confused and decided to chip in and everything went downhill from there. Thats just what happened. Nothing to be done about it now.

No where near as bad. Surely you understand that Mandelson nearly caused our country to collapse, just when we were in the depths of a recession. I could go on and on about the criminal activities involving underage victims. Then to add insult, he received a huge pay off. With our money. We thought Gordon Brown selling off our gold reserves was criminal, but this surpasses everything. Boris having a few covid parties - goodness knows what Mandelson and Epstein were doing during Covid. Then we have Rachel Reeves lying to us about state of our economy, which caused markets to drop. Angela forgetting to pay the correct stamp duty on the second home, financed by NHS compensation money. Bunch of self serving bafoons.

No he was in one of the most powerful jobs in the world. Shameful

Objective read of the market reaction

• Gilts (UK government bonds):

Yields fell—especially at the long end—because investors judged the Budget and OBR numbers as easing medium‑term fiscal risk and creating more “headroom” than expected. Lower yields mean higher prices, so this is a positive signal for perceived creditworthiness.

• Sterling:

The pound strengthened modestly against the dollar, consistent with investors seeing the Budget as fiscally responsible enough to support UK assets rather than trigger a “mini‑Budget” style sell‑off.

• Equities (FTSE 100):

The main UK index rose in a relief rally as fears of a disorderly fiscal stance faded and borrowing costs moved lower, which is supportive for highly leveraged sectors and domestic cyclicals.

The idea that Gordon Brown’s gold sale was “criminal” has become a kind of folk tale, but it doesn’t survive contact with basic economics.

The UK runs a fiat currency, meaning the value of the pound is not tied to gold reserves and hasn’t been since 1931. At the time of the sale, gold made up less than 0.5% of the UK’s total national wealth, and even today the UK holds around 310 tonnes, which is perfectly normal for an advanced economy. Countries like Canada have sold 100% of their gold reserves and remain economically stable. Australia, Switzerland, and the Netherlands have all sold large portions of their reserves without any impact on their currency or solvency.

The sale itself amounted to roughly 395 tonnes over several years — a rounding error in macroeconomic terms. Yes, gold prices rose later, but that’s not the same as it being economically significant. It didn’t threaten the pound, it didn’t destabilise the economy, and it certainly didn’t “surpass everything” that has happened since. It was a routine reserve‑management decision that critics have mythologised far beyond its actual importance.

It is astonishing that there are still staunch supporters of the Labour Party who genuinely believe that there is political capital to be gained from harping on about Boris Johnson and Gordon Brown. Your party is dead, your old political foe is also dead. You're screaming into the abyss and wasting your time and energy. Nobody ctares about Labour or the Tories any more.

Well, thats clearly not true, around 40% of the electorate support Labour or the Cons....

Reform, who i assume you think will be the UK's savior are on anywhere between 25% and 31%....

I'm afraid you re in the minority!

The it seems increasing desire of Labour supporters to blame Gordon Brown (the longest serving Labour Chancellor) is just bizarre to to be honest.

So you'd need a Labour-Tory coalition for either of you to cling on to any kind of relevance. Not the strongest of arguments is it?

There's no need for us to bicker about it anyway. Every by-election and local election between now and 2029 will prove my point for me, assuming this government makes it to 2029.

Yes, we need a New Centrist Party as we have a common opponent, it’s Reform.

Had my letter through from Reform for the May elections, yesterday. It’s scary and it’s real. I am going to hope London is going to be OK but nobody knows. I was at a party yesterday with people discussing it. Several more international types are leaving the country. 2 doctors amongst them, usual finance lot too.
None of this is good and Labour have been a terrible disappointment, the trust has completely gone. We can’t believe a word they say anymore, especially not anything coming from Reeves or Rayner and Starmer has no hold over any of them. He is out of his depth. The Mandelson affair is disgusting, I feel a visceral sickness just thinking about it all. It’s all so sordid and Labour teinted by Epstein is worse than anything Boris did. Boris is a buffoon, this lot are proper villains.

I was merely pointing out that you re wrong when you said "No one is interested in Lab or Con"

Thats the problem with our voting system, we always get a minority Govt, just as we get minority councils.... everyone has no representation.

I'm not really sure why you don't see any problem with this... Reform are likely to win in 2029, with around 70% of voters hating them....

Yes you’re right @Araminta1003they are tied to the sordid rot and it’s worse.

I agree with much of what you say.

But i don't agree Starmer is worse than Boris: Brexit, Russian funding links, promoting a sex abuser, Covid debacle - 100s of 1000s dead, many needlessly because of him...... Covid fraud - in the billions....
not even on par.

12 months ago, no one was jumping up and down about Mandelson and child/women sexual abuse, it was all about what Mandelson has said about Trump in 2019.

No one was clamouring for justice for the victims, inc those abused by AMW.

How would Starmer know about Mandelson leaking info to Mandelson?

However, Mandelson should never have even been considered for the role, shameful.

UK has tried before to have a new centralist party... has never worked.... all the criticism of Labour will do, however much justified, is to ensure a Reform victory & the end of one or both main parties.

Badenoch realises this, Labour do not.... Tory supporters need to be careful what they wish for.

I do have a problem with it actually. But I wouldn't support a sudden clamour for electoral reform from supporters of the Uniparty at this stage, they've benefitted from it for long enough. Now they can watch their parties die under the same rules that have kept them in power for so long.

Nowhere near as bad? A direct hit on democracy is worse than appointing someone to a position when not in possession of the full facts? You do know that we’re making a direct comparison between prime ministers here?

None of thats true.

Gilt yields lower than for the last 12 months under Sunak, FTSE100 and FTSE All Share index's are record highs, way higher than 18months ago, my pension is booming!
Under Reeves, markets have done the opposite to "Collapse"

Mandelson never leaked such information, not stuff that would collapse the economy, we don't even know what he leaked.... still being investigated.

Rayner hasn't even received a Tax demand from HMRC yet, she may never get one, the stamp duty rules in her tax situation is complex, hence the advise she sought was contrary.

Might be better to get your news from other sources than the 'Express.

How would Starmer know about Mandelson leaking info to Mandelson
The government have access to information the general public don't? Of course Starmer will have been briefed by intelligence services.

All the criticism of Labour will do, however much justified, is to ensure a Reform victory & the end of one or both main parties.
So to avoid reform we shouldn't hold the government accountable?

Labour is responsible for its own failings. If Starmer goes it’s due to his major error and his own party realising he can’t continue.

They’ll have to work out how to deal with it and stop blaming everyone else.

Unless you re mind reader, you don't know what the security services know or what they told the Govt, let alone Starmer.
The UK has experienced plenty of spy scandals where info simply wasn't known about.

Of course we should hold all Govts and parties accountable, i'm pointing out that if either Con or Lab supporters don't want Reform, they have to be more measured, though it does appear that has passed some by...

I note the Tories aren't calling for a GE.... & have mellowed on their demands Starmer needs to go.

The advisor on whom Rayner tried to blame her “predicament” had not actually advised on it though. When Ange tried to throw her under the bus, she explained that the tax advice was not in her remit (and good for her). So Rayner lied about it, presumably because she knew she was on dodgy ground.

Oh pipe down. Do you personally know people working in the City or government at that time?
He had been sacked twice before. Starmer knew of his relationship with a paedophile. Is that not enough? Stop firing insults and sticking up for powerful men. I am assuming you don’t read any papers - you are oblivious to anything going on.

He knew Mandelson was cosy with a paedophile.
Are you suggesting this was a mistake? How shameful

It’s the very deep seating misogyny and antisemitism exposed again. Sorry but nothing good or kind about that. The grooming scandals, not knowing what a woman is, the unstable relationship with the Muslim vote. It all stinks to the hills and not sure how any educated woman with daughters can vote for them anymore. It really requires deep inspection and apologies on their part.

You're obsessed with proroguing. Meaningless. Had no effect. Debatable whether the courts should have been involved at all in judging its validity. Storm in a tea cup that made no difference other than putting another spanner in finalising Brexit.

It bears no comparison to the lack of accountability throughout the Blair years with his "sofa government" . New Labour found democracy and Parliament a nuisance. Far better to transfer decision making powers away from Parliamemt to quangos. Which is one of the big problems we face now. Governments can't govern.

If we are talking about KS, Palantir is what I would be looking at. We know his judgement re PM is terrible already.