What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

Are all lesbians lovely and perfect partners purely because they are female?

She's not wrong. I'd be proud of her. Wish my dds had so much clear eyed common sense.

Yes…
Don’t worry dear, most of the men you will meet will never be blessed with enough money or power to get away with fulfilling their child sex fantasies.

that’s the way to get her to like men…

I often read threads like this, and I did some counting on relatives, colleagues and close friends in my own life. Roughly I think 25% of the men I have come into contact with I would have regarded as highly sexist and to some degree toxic for women. I think there is another group of about the same number who have no real feeling for women and will happily be led into sexist banter/ misogyny by the other group. This leaves half of men as basically decent, but even then often with real flaws. If there is one lesson I would pass on to your daughter or younger women, it is for God’s sake be really fussy when you enter into a relationship with a man and keep assessing it as it progresses.

Yes this. It’s not all, but it’s a fuckload of them! Youve raised an intelligent young woman, who has eyes. You don’t need to steer her in any direction.

I don't think she sounds jaded. I think it's much healthier for her to be aware, than to be doing what my generation were taught to do, which was accept shitty behaviour from men and convince ourselves we were happy - we were essentially gaslighting ourselves all the time! Hopefully as others have said it'll mean she'll set her bar higher and have a happier experience herself.

Well they’re less likely to rape children for a start. Is that a good enough barometer for you?

She is right to be concerned about this! There are so many influential and political men still in government and important jobs involved that it becomes more disgusting, demeaning to women and frankly shite beggaring belief that they all need f word sacked and their money given to charities! It’s like a TV drama but real!

I think she has a point. She sounds great!

Thank you.

Porn is ruining young men. Misogyny is widespread. DV and sexual assaults are on the rise. Justice for same is thin on the ground.

She's just being realistic. This is the world she lives in. I'd be more concerned if she was idealistic/naive about men tbh.

Young women like your daughter are essentially demanding that men step up.

I see that as a good thing.

My eldest daughter feels like this too and I’m glad. I wish I’d come to the same realisation when I was younger. Sadly it was the norm back then to put up with harassment by men and laugh along at their groping and lewd remarks.
I have a nice partner now after many years of shit, manipulative men. If we split up though I’d happily be single for the rest of my life. There are far more rubbish men than there are decent ones (in my experience)

What an interesting discussion.
I really value your contributions.

This, this, a million times this. 🙌👏

I don’t get it. A thread where women are expressing hatred of men and then claiming that misogyny is off the scale! Misandry is ok though?

OP, I think you are right to be concerned about the generalised alienation of the sexes from one another. It’s not just your daughter and it doesn’t bode well.

If someone tried to get me to step up by saying they hate all women and it was up to me to prove we're not all just meal-ticket seeking manipulators, or hated all Northerners, we're just thick scum and I need to step up and prove them wrong, I wouldn't be inclined to try and win them over. I'd think they were narrow minded bigots and socialise elsewhere.

Try treating people as individuals. It's fairer.

As the mother of 3 adult sons and an adult DD, this thread is really depressing. If you genuinely think the Epstein files are typical of all men, you're a) completely wrong and b) should probably start surrounding yourself with better people.

One woman's 'misandry' is another woman's reality.

She sounds pretty insightful for her age.

Don't tell her it's not all men. She's not an idiot. She knows it's not all men. She's allowed to form her own opinions based on what she sees in the world. Her take on the Epstein files is hard to argue with. Instead of dismissing her feelings maybe try saying something like that it makes you sad but you can see why she feels that way. Her views will adapt and change as her experiences change.

But how do you surround yourself with better men when they’re hard to come by?

She obviously has a pretty good head on her shoulders. A significant minority of men are awful - they kill a woman about every 3 days (and a man every day). This thread is absolutely right about the misogyny and violence that men mete out to women.

I would suggest, however, that the Epstein files are no more documented proof men are evil than it would be to suggest that the fact that Theresa May introduced the hostile environment, Priti Patel the Rwanda scheme, or Marine LePen leading National Rally were documented proof that women are racist.

Generalisations are useful and definitely should be part of her tools for thinking about the world and the risks in it, but they aren't universal truths.

Gosh yes, I see what you mean. Of course, we are - statistically - vanishingly unlikely to rape, drug, punch, strangle or stab any men on the basis of our “misandry”, but women being mean on the internet is totally an equivalent social evil to the pandemic of VAWG 🙄

Once again, I haven’t dismissed her feelings.