What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

This isn’t the gotcha that poster thinks it is

I’d just be thankful she has her head screwed on and is aware of how the world can be to be honest.

Hopefully in the future (if she wants a male partner), she’ll meet someone who changes that view to “some men” rather than “all men”

She’s right though, just look at the way women and children have been treated since the dawn of time by men, and still are in many countries. Equality has only started coming about very recently and doesn’t exist in many parts of the world because men made and enjoy it that way.

Once you realise that throughout human history men have consistently across almost all countries and societies made it so that women (and children) are second class citizens who they can abuse and exploit, and this is still the case in many counties, you stop seeing it as not all men.

I think as a whole men are awful and unfortunately it’s a very small minority who are genuinely decent, most so called “good men” are sexist and selfish to some degree as the bar is very low, and we’ve been conditioned to see a lot of it as normal.

You’ve raised an intelligent daughter aware of her surroundings.
Be saddened by the reality of this being the situation, not trying to push ‘it’s not all men’. Fine, not all, but I’ll go as far as to say most. And certainly enough that it is a huge problem.

I guess she may also have had her own experiences to lend to that view, lord knows it happens too often and is on the rise.
I agree with her, she seems smart too. Smart enough too to recognise a good man when she meets them, be in a friend or a partner.

They aren’t though.

All the bullies and sexist pigs l worked with. Hassling women in every way they can.

Do let me know where they are. Im not holding my breath.

If I'd stayed away from men between the ages of 18 and 30, (minus having my lovely son with my ex) I'd have had a MUCH better life. Better career, more money, probably a house at a much younger age. I'm not just blaming the men - of course I take responsibility too. But men just get in the way, a lot of the time.

I often replay the last 30 years in my mind, but minus the men, and it's....better.

Agreed!!

Eventually her hormones will take over and she will (likely) choose a partner, but hopefully her understanding of what men can be like will make her cautious when choosing a man.

I think hers is a far more preferable starting point than the hordes of young women (and I was one) who will get on their knees for men, any man will do, to seek their validation. Desperate to please them, hoping they’ll like you, whilst not even pausing to consider if they’re funny/interesting/kind/all the wonderful qualities you’re desperately to show you are.
given me your DDs starting point for my daughters over my paragraph above every single time.
she might meet a nice one, and be pleasantly surprised, but it will be him setting out to prove himself value to her. And not the other way round.
good for her.

I’ve been encouraging myself to do the same; unfortunately my bloody hormones won’t listen!!

It’s so interesting isn’t it? I remember watching my friends and female family members absolutely pour all of themselves into relationships to the detriment of everything else, spending so much time and energy trying to make relationships with these nothing men work, and thinking what they could achieve if they put that energy to better use. It’s such a waste of talent.

Sadly, I think it's a positive. Hopefully it means she won't get trapped by an arsehole.

In theory, I'd encourage you to tell her there are some good men out there. But since they're in the minority, I personally would feel safer not challenging her viewpoint.

Very, very true.
Sadly I myself was one of the people-pleasing young women. Not any more! But I am very proud of her.

I agree with PPs that her realisation about the world (men) is a good thing and will hopefully lead her to have a much higher bar than the loser I married, for example. I remember in the 90s we were indoctrinated into thinking we should be 'ladettes', always up for it. It was hateful and thank god young women now will call out shitty behaviour and stay single if they don't get what they deserve. Good on her!

Just tell her that while her rage is perfectly justifiable, it is healthier to target it at the people who actually perpetrate the crimes (including Ghislaine, who was the one who groomed the girls.)

It is never wise to decide that an entire sector of society is bad, because that dehumanises them and what we need, more than ever right now, is a groundswell of humane behaviour.

Show her the footage of the 14-year-old-boy in Australia on the news tonight who swam 4km through stormy seas and then ran 2km to the nearest phone to raise the alarm that his mother and younger siblings were stranded on a paddleboard. Does she hate him?

I agree. My most recent ex and I are friends. We were reviewing our lives last time we met up and he was horrified when I said I wished I'd spent less time focusing on relationships and put a lot more time and energy into my career (which is already good) because it was the one area of my life where I excelled.

I would drop the NAMALT bollocks.

But is she jaded? Or is it fair for her to look at the prominent men in the world right now and think fuck that. To look at crime stats and think what the fuck is wrong with men! To look at the pay gap and mother's load etc and wonder what the hell? Is she really jaded. Like most of us she will probably love the men in her life and if she's heterosexual still have feelings or attraction to specific men and see the exceptions but fuck me as a group or species or whatever they have a lot to feel bad about, I don't think she's wide of the mark.

It's a crying shame! I often dream I could have been the CEO of Estee Lauder without men getting in the way! Unfortunately, back then, hormones prevailed. As you say, there's such a better use for all the energy we put into men!

I have a number of wonderful, funny and kind men in my life, but I still think that Germaine Greer was right when she said 'Women have very little idea of how much men hate them'.

I think your daughter's awareness of the realities of the world will serve her well in life.

She is right to be wary of men. The default should be to assume they can hurt us. They are on average bigger and stronger. They have shown as a class to be willing to commit violence and violate sexual consent at much higher rates than women.

Every stranger needs to prove they are trustworthy, but women are wise to require more proof from men.

It’s not about hating men, it’s about not being naive.

Her Ddad built the foundation of her opinion that men are evil when he cheated on you. Everything else thereafter are building blocks.

This happened to me actually (dad serial cheater then mum divorced him) but overall it helped in the long-run because I wouldn’t settle for just anyone. I’m with my husband 26 years (married for 10) and he’s honestly the best/perfect man I’ve ever met.

Don't argue with her, you'll make her think you naive.

Tell her being independent and single is perfectly fine and you'll be proud of her no matter how she lives her life.

It is up to a decent man to break down those preconceptions, not you.

Good on you for saying it, more men need to hear it. The amount of labour men expect from women in every facet of their lives is astounding, and that’s even before one considers abuse etc. Love yourself first, pour your energy into the single most important, most long-lasting and most significant relationship of your life: the one with yourself.