What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

...

What’s wrong exactly? She is correct to be disgusted and her attitude will hopefully protect her a bit. Hopefully. I stupidly thought 1 in 10 men was worth talking to at her age. I was wrong. Never met a man yet who views women as equally valid humans.

My sons and husband are good men. There are good men and bad women in the world. I do think evil people are drawn to others just like them though and the internet has facilitated them finding each other.

Yes nothing to see here. She’s pretty much right

She does know the person jailed for working with Epstein was a woman, right?

She really isn't.

It's up to men to prove her wrong.

What are the chances they will? That she will meet someone who will make her think again?

How many men genuinely stand up for victims? Speak up against child sex abuse? Sexism?

I can think of a lot of women who do. And a very small handful of men.

And to counter your argument, I doubt Ghislaine would've done what she did if she not known Epstein. Pretty sure Hindley wouldn't have done. Don't know much about Rose, but I presume Fred was a manipulator. Some women are totally taken in by manipulators, same reason women get stuck with charming abusers who've then worn their confidence and sense of self-worth away.

The women are totally responsible for their actions of course, but it's not, as a general rule, a female thing to go around harming others in such horrific ways.

Right now as examples, women harming others on their own fruition I can think of the girls in Heavenly creatures film, with Kate Winslet and Mary Bell though am sure there will be a few more.

If can find me as many women that commit these crimes as men seem to do then yes, you can tell me 'that's life'.

I wonder what your sons would say, in a bar, with male friends making lewd comments about women?

I have one example of a man doing what was right.

A 16 year old was sexually assaulted on a flight, 1 hour into a transatlantic flight.

The pilot (male) turned the plane around to return to the country they just left (cost 30k) so statements could be taken by law enforcement and the man who assaulted her prosecuted. He pled guilty today.

Because putting gay men in the same category as women is wrong.
Because presuming a gay man is in some way effeminate or a "better friend", and therefore more relatable, is wrong.
No screaming.

She's not wrong. I spent my thirties thinking that my 19-year-old left-wing atheist feminist self was naive and absolutist, but now I'm approaching menopause and we're finding out about all the shit that was actually happening back then, I feel like she was more or less spot-on.

I'd leave it. She's not wrong, but she's also 19 and having you tell her not all men etc won't change her view. If she meets the right man it will change organically.

OK. That was unintentional. I just meant that my daughter was often saying quite misandrist things and is rightly furious at the levels of violence committed by men. As we also have a son, I was careful to avoid stereotyping where possible. She literally never spoke to boys at school ever. I thought it was positive that she had finally made a male friend and perhaps she can soften her stance a bit to welcome nice men into her life (she does get along with her dad). I added that her friend was gay as I think she feels a bit safer around him.
But they are mostly friends because they enjoy similar music, humour etc.

It's actually a bit depressing thinking of how few men I know actually support equal rights, both in their words and behaviour.

Until men routinely start calling out men for all the shit they create, your daughter is correct.

The fact they don’t/ won’t …..😠 things won’t change. Women have evolved, men haven’t.

@Veryproudtobehere yeah, white women benefit from and perpetuate structural racism. Doesm't negate the fact that we live in a patriarchy. And yes, there are plenty of white women running round propping that up too, but they don't benefit from it as much as white men. Try googling 'intersectionality' sometime.

@Veryproudtobehere oh, forget my search engine suggestion. You clearly haven't had any real life interactions with human beings since high school.

I love and trust my DH and I’ve had some great male friends and relatives but on reading what your DD said…she’s not wrong. I wouldn’t worry about her, she sounds like she’s got her head screwed on.

My 22 yr old son sent a similar text earlier, he’s not wrong either.

🙄