to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

[HazelMember]

I keep seeing posts (and hearing it in real life) where fathers somehow get a free pass for things mothers are simply expected to do without question.

Fathers who can’t cope with more than one child at a time.

Fathers who don’t wake up when the baby cries at night because they “didn’t hear it”.

Fathers who are “no good with babies” so the mum just has to deal with it.
Why is this still acceptable?

Mothers don’t get a choice. They have to hear the baby. They have to cope. They have to function even when exhausted. Yet men sleeping through the night is treated like an unfortunate quirk rather than a problem that needs fixing.

Do not even get me started on when a mum goes away for a few days and feels obliged to prepare food, clean the house, label things, and generally make life easier for the father when this is almost never done in reverse.

If a father is “crap” at parenting, the solution isn’t for the mother to carry more of the load. It’s for him to get better fast. That’s what parenting is. You don’t opt out because it’s hard or unfamiliar.

What makes it worse is that sometimes even mothers make excuses for it calling men “good dads” for the bare minimum or explaining away genuinely poor parenting as if it’s just how men are.

Before anyone jumps in: yes, obviously not all men are like this. Plenty of fathers are brilliant, hands-on and competent. This isn’t about them.

AIBU for thinking we need to stop normalising this and start expecting the same basic standards from fathers that we do from mothers?

Glad someone has finally said it, do not think the above has ever been raised before by anyone on Mumsnet.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

you do realise that you only hear the bad on mumsnet though?

No-one is coming on here to praise their wonderful men.

there is also the fact there are plenty of women on here who clearly don't allow their husbands to participate in parenting, don't view them as an equal parent from day 1, then moan when they ask them to step-up and they either can't, or don't know how to... or decide they don't want to.

Maybe women should stop marrying and having kids with crappy men, and actually allow the decent ones to be involved.

Not ever in the history of AIBU - never, ever lol x

I don’t think it’s easy to “just leave” either when you’re newly postpartum and on maternity leave but honestly I don’t think I’d love my DH the same if he did half of these things to be honest. A lazy dad who doesn’t care about me is NOT attractive

I have very intelligent friends who deliberately obfuscate exactly how shit their kids' dads are. It is so, so ingrained for us just to put up and shut up, still, even nowadays. Even if we are in high paying highly regarded jobs. Even if the dads appear to be competent and normal to others outside the family home. Horrible.

I find it a very hollow victory and deeply disturbing that it is usually better to struggle completely alone than it is to struggle alongside some useless selfish dickhead who makes you feel even more alone.

The solutions, in my opinion, are far too drastic for most women to countenance 😂

We don't need them. It's time they knew that.

And I’m sorry to judge and I know I’m horrible for saying it, but it’s when the mums go on to have 2,3,4 kids with the same man that didn’t even parent one!

Plenty of crap mothers out there as well.

YANBU but ... It is women who enable them to be lazy useless bastards. It starts with their mothers treating them like little Prince's and continues with girlfriends pandering to them. we need to tell them it is 50-50 or fuck all but too many women can't/won't be without a man. We reap what we sow.

Not sure I quite get your point about waking up. I mean, either a noise wakes you or it doesn't - it's not something you can control. Some people are deeper sleepers than others.

No I hear it from friends, people at work.

Someone at work, on the very day they brought their baby from the hospital the dad went to a gig. She was overwhelmed and exhausted, The same dad just doesn't 'wake up; when their baby cries.

Another friend - her DH can't cope with both DC so she has to always take on with her.

Lots more real life stories. There is a life beyond mumsnet!

I have heard this countless times from women whose men don't wake up or do not hear the baby screaming.

Women need to accept that many many men, including many of their husbands don't care about having children. They just don't care. It's not a big deal for them and they are certainly in no rush.
But these men will go along with having children if their partner wants children. They feel they are doing her a favour. They certainly don't intend to be equal parents.
Obviously namalt. But many are so unless your man is 100% onboard, and is at least as enthusiastic as you are about being a parent, DO NOT have children with him.

or you pretend you don't wake up and wait for the mum to deal with it

YANBU at all but if you point this out on MN, you'll often get accused of 'blaming the woman' for putting up with it.

Yet, no-one can wipe their feet on you unless you lie down and let them do it.

To some women, any man is better than no man and that's sad for both them and their children.

Yep. Even at a systematic level. When my ex was neglecting our DC when they were with him, ss said he was "trying his best" If I, as a mother, were putting my DC in damp, smelly, too small clothes with holes in, and sending them to school with a smear of jam on a manky bit of bread, ss would rightly come down on me like a ton of bricks. Because he's a man, he's trying his best. Awwww And btw, if I send them to be with their dad, and anything happens, it's my fault for sending them there knowing he isn't looking after them properly. Not his fault for not looking after them properly

Heard what - what I'm saying (that it's not a choice) or the opposite (that they think it is)?

IME another issue is when we take everything on because dad is working full time and they get a free pass. I made this huge mistake, SAHM back in the dark ages until no 3 went to school, absolutely no expectation that he had to do anything and to be fair he worked long hours and Saturday as SE. Of course when I started working full time he expected his life of luxury to continue even though he was very early semi retired at this point.
It’s hard to start as you mean to go on but you really really have to with some men (NAMALT)

Yanbu.

I got so fed up with ex's selective ineptitude that I took dc and left. I couldn't see the point of him any more, life was simply easier without him.

Ex still tells anyone who will listen (15 years later) that he doesn't understand why I left, despite me spelling it out clearly in short words, several times.

Don't forget the praise the great dads that only manage to parent EOW and the expectation that mums will pick up the other 12 days a fortnight.

I think bar is set so fucking low for dads. I’m lucky my DH is a good father but so many just aren’t, anytime I doubt myself and think I’m a bad mum i just think if I was a man ppl would think what I do is phenomenal

Possibly the main reason the birth rate is dropping

Yes and us single mums are absolutely raking it in in benefits.

My exh claims more benefits than I do 🤣

Totally agree with all these points! Very criminal! And we need to buck up as a sex!

However, can we also recognise a system that is fundamentally broken? Giving a father 2 weeks paternity leave is OBVIOUSLY going make them LESS of a competent parent from day 1 (well, day 15), they have only ba few hours a day to learn what the mother learns in the first month. Of course it's going to take a lot more time for them to feel comfortable with a 'delicate' newborn, then I guess the parenting divide just expands.

Paternity should be compulsory (so they are not rewarded in their career for choosing NOT to take it) AND a lot longer than 2 bloody weeks - when, often the woman is still bleeding and is MASSIVELY overwhelmed.

I have lots of real life friend examples, too!

The rate of men taking up even the two weeks paternity leave on full pay is low in my organisation.

Shared parental leave is also an option but most men do not want to take it because it might affect their careers.