to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

[HazelMember]

I keep seeing posts (and hearing it in real life) where fathers somehow get a free pass for things mothers are simply expected to do without question.

Fathers who can’t cope with more than one child at a time.

Fathers who don’t wake up when the baby cries at night because they “didn’t hear it”.

Fathers who are “no good with babies” so the mum just has to deal with it.
Why is this still acceptable?

Mothers don’t get a choice. They have to hear the baby. They have to cope. They have to function even when exhausted. Yet men sleeping through the night is treated like an unfortunate quirk rather than a problem that needs fixing.

Do not even get me started on when a mum goes away for a few days and feels obliged to prepare food, clean the house, label things, and generally make life easier for the father when this is almost never done in reverse.

If a father is “crap” at parenting, the solution isn’t for the mother to carry more of the load. It’s for him to get better fast. That’s what parenting is. You don’t opt out because it’s hard or unfamiliar.

What makes it worse is that sometimes even mothers make excuses for it calling men “good dads” for the bare minimum or explaining away genuinely poor parenting as if it’s just how men are.

Before anyone jumps in: yes, obviously not all men are like this. Plenty of fathers are brilliant, hands-on and competent. This isn’t about them.

AIBU for thinking we need to stop normalising this and start expecting the same basic standards from fathers that we do from mothers?

It’s all to do with the circles you move in. Men who are usually down the pub watching football while ignoring family life would be ones who are shit parents - if you’re not friends with these types of men you won’t see it firsthand, it absolutely does happen to a large degree though.

Completely agree it happens and less likely to discuss it if you're male and move more in those circles but at the same time have friends who I do go out with/watch footie with who then take turns so that their wives get out / socialise too and get good time to enjoy with the kids. I have good female pals too and just don't see it where crap parenting is praised like that (accept it happens though).

I suppose I just felt this thread was a bit of a pile on and that generally, most people wouldnt praise a parent who did the bare minimum (like taking their kids for a maccy ds once a month!) as 'oh well he did his best' so thought I would counter some of the point made.

Its literally a post detailing exactly instances of poor parenting being praised, of course you will have more examples. Particularly if you also have 20 years of looking through a site like this too where people love to highlight this kind of thing but none of those examples are 'concrete'.

The vast majority of people are fully aware of what constitutes good and bad parenting.

For the vast majority of dads the bar is not low and they take the role very seriously.

Sorry but that is just astonishingly naive. No one is denying that there are plenty of good dads ..this thread is about how little men have to do to be considered good parents compared to women. See your kids four times a month? Fine. Pay the mandated minimum maintenance? No need to do more. Do you think resident parents get to ring fence a bit of their salary and just hoard the rest? As I said upthread ..go read some more threads. I'm not sure why your dismissing this as evidence..what do you want?

Exactly. Yes there are plenty of people who expect more from fathers nowasays, but they are far from the majority. The things that have earned DH the title of 'wow what a Great Dad' according to many friends, family, work colleagues and random people on the street are not even noteworthy when I do them.

Nope, the vast majority of parents are extremely devoted to their kids, including dads. Some might even make the odd mistake and find themselves on one sided threads like this one. Others may fully deserve criticism.

The bar is not low for the majority of these parents and fathers.

It's incredibly naive to think that just because you've experienced instances of bad parenting and been on mumsnet for 20 years that everyone should bow to your say so.

It's also ridiculously insulting for you to try and paint a picture where the majority of people don't know what good parenting is just because there are examples and threads of them, many of which may well be very one sided, many others completely correct.

I'm not dismissing any evidence and would rather take each instance on merit rather than your sweeping generalisation and dismissing anyone who doesnt agree with you as 'mansplaining'.

What I don't agree with is the kind of pile-on in this kind of discussion.

What is the difference between a 'pile on' and a majority view? I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I am.not talking about actual standards of parenting, but the way the most minimal effort on the part of dads is casually praised as 'good ' whereas women have to pass every single parenting test with flying colours. World book day costume missing? Lack of professional standard 3d volcano model? A slightly grubby jumper one sat or sub standard packed lunch? Crap mother. Baby with a nappy on the right way up? What a great dad, aren't you lucky he's so "hands on"! I'm.not criticising the dads..I'm criticising the casual, constant unequal standards applied.

women have to pass every single parenting test with flying colours. World book day costume missing? Lack of professional standard 3d volcano model? A slightly grubby jumper one sat or sub standard packed lunch? Crap mother.

I'm fairly confident in saying that the people judging women for those scenarios would almost exclusively be other women.

often but not always no. My male colleagues were singing my DH praises whenever we were on a business trip and my DH was managing home and a baby (or later 2 children) all by himself! All alone! Amazing, what a great dad!

Those same male colleagues had DC of similar age, but the fact that their own wives were 'home alone' and managing it all was of course normal and expected.

I was responding to the post I quoted about judgement of school projects and packed lunches.

yes that's probably accurate, mostly also women who don't have anything else going on in their lives but ensuring their DC has the most elaborate book day costume.

In my experience, general 'isn't a dad amazing for doing an everyday task with his child' is not limited to women though.

You’re advocating equality across the board. Are you sure you really want it?

Why did you resurrect this old thread to add a typically nonsensical take?

Have I broken a statute of limitations?

No but you're obviously bored in the Easter hols and trying to wind up women. Sad really.

Absolutely agree op but I think the other thing is mums need to let go a bit too, mums who take their kids everywhere with them, never ever leaving them, spend every living moment cleaning (and I don’t mean because their house is a top or their family doesn’t muddle in), mothers who won’t take up hobbies or go out on their own etc. The women who say ‘I’ll do it because the kids won’t do it right’ or allow weaponised incompetence because it bugs them not to have it all perfect. (These were all me and I see it with my friends and my mum says she was the same)

I remember realising when everyone sat down at night/ went to bed I was trying to get ahead of the next day (which you don’t ever really) when I saw on mn I’d rather sit down at night and have a crazy morning then spend my whole life cleaning and it blew my mind. Now I’ve a lot more of a ‘does everything really need to be done today?’ mindset and it’s helping.

I agree with you but some women have different views. We talked about this before having kids and if dh didn't step up to the plate I would have left him after dc1. I had a job though, a supportive family and had no such issues about being on my own without a man. I do not understand it when women make their lives harder by having repeated children with a man who has shown his true colours. However, some people will always be emotional in the choice to have further children rather than being practical. I do not understand their point of view but then we aren't all the same.

My dh has different amounts of parental leave and always used some annual leave to support me after birth but his contribution didn't end just because he went to work. I'm no martyr and needed sleep too so he did at least 3 nights with all 3 kids. We didn't have any family support. I never micromanaged him in terms of parenting or whatever else but I wasn't getting in the habit of thinking for a grown arsed man. He did once ask me how he should settle dc1 and I reminded him that I was a first time parent too, I didn't have a manual and was winging it too. I was figuring out what would work for me and he might have a different approach that would work for him but he needed to figure it out. He did.

It’s not simply holidays. It’s a pattern with this poster.