to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

[HazelMember]

I keep seeing posts (and hearing it in real life) where fathers somehow get a free pass for things mothers are simply expected to do without question.

Fathers who can’t cope with more than one child at a time.

Fathers who don’t wake up when the baby cries at night because they “didn’t hear it”.

Fathers who are “no good with babies” so the mum just has to deal with it.
Why is this still acceptable?

Mothers don’t get a choice. They have to hear the baby. They have to cope. They have to function even when exhausted. Yet men sleeping through the night is treated like an unfortunate quirk rather than a problem that needs fixing.

Do not even get me started on when a mum goes away for a few days and feels obliged to prepare food, clean the house, label things, and generally make life easier for the father when this is almost never done in reverse.

If a father is “crap” at parenting, the solution isn’t for the mother to carry more of the load. It’s for him to get better fast. That’s what parenting is. You don’t opt out because it’s hard or unfamiliar.

What makes it worse is that sometimes even mothers make excuses for it calling men “good dads” for the bare minimum or explaining away genuinely poor parenting as if it’s just how men are.

Before anyone jumps in: yes, obviously not all men are like this. Plenty of fathers are brilliant, hands-on and competent. This isn’t about them.

AIBU for thinking we need to stop normalising this and start expecting the same basic standards from fathers that we do from mothers?

Yes can assess way before that. Do they do their share of the life admin, do you cook wash up, clean etc etc 50:50. If those things fall to the women in the relationship then the child raising will as well.

I know men who have done 50-50 before children came along then stopped after children so no you can't always assess.

It wasn't just that time, it was ongoing. I think DH got up more than I did. But as I say, I'm probably an outlier.

You can very much assess after child number 1.

Are you saying your baby would've been removed from your care if you were a single mother?

Or that you just didn't hear the baby because you knew DH would deal/wake you?

Agree with everything you say OP. And stats would easily back you up.

I’d also like to add - what really should upset every tax payer - is that because of all these feckless ‘fathers’, the state ends up having to pay out to support the mum and children (rightly so) that the man has abandoned / doesn’t pay for. Makes me so angry!

And this isn’t even touching on the psychological / social impact the useless man has on the children he brought into the world. The consequences of which go on and on.

@ChillingWithMySnowmies to be fair I made a post at christmas asking for stories of decent men who got it right (after seeing loads of stories of bad ones) and got slaughtered for it 🤣 so I don't think telling the good stories works either!

In the 15 years I've been on Mumsnet, I don't think I've ever seen a thread where the OP hasn't got slated for starting a cheerful thread appreciating their DP, and encouraging others to post about their lovely DPs.

Something about it just rubs some women up the wrong way, and there's calls of 'smug' or 'this thread should've had a trigger warning' etc.

It's a shame really.

@INX

Are you saying your baby would've been removed from your care if you were a single mother?

Er, no. I think you're confusing me with another poster.

Or that you just didn't hear the baby because you knew DH would deal/wake you?

Maybe, I don't know. To be honest I haven't thought about it in years before this thread reminded me.

Maybe your just unlucky. Most of the time you can. None of my friends would put up with the shit you seem to think is normal.

No, I've just checked and I'm definitely not confusing you with another poster?

You said it started in the maternity hospital (not hearing your baby cry) and was then 'ongoing'.

This thread is about crap Dads. Can you clarify the relevance of your comment please.

A little rebuke to those people who insist on saying not my Nigel / not all men / women are just as bad 🙈🙈

It’s about men being arseholes, very much linked with them deserting their kids / not paying to support their upbringing.

‘Out of 10 men, 1 makes a sexual joke directed at a woman, 2 laugh alone, 3 don't find it funny but still chuckle to fit in, and 4 say nothing, pretending they didn't hear it at all. Not a single one speaks up, and not a single one stops it. Later, aside from the man who made the joke, the other nine all believe the same thing: men like that are a minority and most men aren't like this, seeing themselves as part of the "good majority".

However, from the perspective of the woman being harassed, there is no big difference between them because the laughter, the silence, and the looking away all create the same environment. When women say most men are the same, this is what they mean: while not every man harasses women, most men participate in protecting the system that does.’

While not every man deserts their kids, they sure as hell protect the system that does.

@INX As far as I'm aware, Lardychops Yesterday at 23:32 is the only person to mention kids being removed because their single parent doesn't hear them crying.

My sole point is that women can be heavy sleepers too. That's it.

@INX yes thats exactly what I had, alongside complaints of 'I shouldn't be praising the bare minimum' except it wasn't the bare minimum.

But overall it turned into a lovely thread of nice stories and wasn't too derailed - I'll probably do another one for valentines day and await the backlash 🤣

A lot of women put up with it

It feels like fewer as time goes by, the younger generations - partly through listening and being able to ask on websites like this - seem to be wising up to this

Men are clearly responding by throwing toys out of prams and blaming women for the fact they are being overlooked as a decent partner. Instead of you know thinking about it.

One of the many qualities about H I love us he will call out other men’s behaviour, does not hide the fact he adores his kids and family. Our teen boys will do the same.

It’s for men to sort out. Some are trying.

My sole point is that women can be heavy sleepers too. That's it.

Yes, which is why I asked you if you believe your baby would've been removed from your care had you been single, or do you think you just sleep that heavily because you have a DH who you know will deal/wake you up 🤷‍♂️

My question has nothing to do with any other poster.

93% of voters currently agree so there is one indication that a heck of a lot of people are unlucky then.

@frozendaisy

It’s for men to sort out. Some are trying.

Meanwhile back in the real world, that will never happen. Therefore, it's up to women to choose more wisely and to ditch their useless men when they change into feckless ones (assuming they weren't previously). Otherwise nothing will ever change. Relying on good men to change the bad ones will take a couple of generations (even if it actually happened) so will be of no help at all to todays' younger women with children or about to have children. Women need to do what they can to protect themselves rather than constantly harp on about "perfect world" solutions that will never happen in their lifetimes! And no, this isn't blaming women, it's just common sense that women should do all they can to protect and look after themselves.

No, i really challenge this. I dont think its lying or masking. My experiences and observations would say its a genuine change that occurs stimulated by the lack of autonomy and freedom that can come with parenthood, the challenges of maintainimg a romantic relationship etc. Throw an interested co-worker or hobby partner into the mix and its not hard to see how it happens

How do you explain the women who first experience domestic violence for the first time when they are pregnant? How are they to blame?

@HazelMember I think the the posts on this thread aren’t referring to men who don’t show their true colours until pregnancy.

YANBU but women also need to think more carefully about who they're having children with. Yes, I know some men change after marriage/children, but a lot were selfish arseholes beforehand and it's a little strange to think they'd automatically change once they had children.

I agree with you @taxguru

I posted this upthread, but it is worth saying again

I see this time and time again in here from women who are TTC with men who clearly aren't interested in parenthood - men who prioritise drugs, alcohol or gaming over their partners. Why are these women so deluded that their sperm donors are going to miraculously going to change? Even worse are the women who already have children and want more with their useless sperm donors.

I have heard it said that the most important decision we will ever make, is who we decide to have a child / children with.

Exactly. It reminds me how of a friend had a child with her partner and her partners parents wanted them to get married. She said no because it is too much commitment.

That may well be the case. I never understand why these women put up with it rather than telling their husbands to get their shit together.

Really? You cant understand that not all women have the confidence to strike out on their own? That not all women can earn enough to get a deposit together, or have a supportive family waiting to help or take her in? Or that a new mum might not want to risk their husband storming out if she tells him to get his shit together? You really cant imagine that?