to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

[HazelMember]

I keep seeing posts (and hearing it in real life) where fathers somehow get a free pass for things mothers are simply expected to do without question.

Fathers who can’t cope with more than one child at a time.

Fathers who don’t wake up when the baby cries at night because they “didn’t hear it”.

Fathers who are “no good with babies” so the mum just has to deal with it.
Why is this still acceptable?

Mothers don’t get a choice. They have to hear the baby. They have to cope. They have to function even when exhausted. Yet men sleeping through the night is treated like an unfortunate quirk rather than a problem that needs fixing.

Do not even get me started on when a mum goes away for a few days and feels obliged to prepare food, clean the house, label things, and generally make life easier for the father when this is almost never done in reverse.

If a father is “crap” at parenting, the solution isn’t for the mother to carry more of the load. It’s for him to get better fast. That’s what parenting is. You don’t opt out because it’s hard or unfamiliar.

What makes it worse is that sometimes even mothers make excuses for it calling men “good dads” for the bare minimum or explaining away genuinely poor parenting as if it’s just how men are.

Before anyone jumps in: yes, obviously not all men are like this. Plenty of fathers are brilliant, hands-on and competent. This isn’t about them.

AIBU for thinking we need to stop normalising this and start expecting the same basic standards from fathers that we do from mothers?

Unless there are further circumstances I'd be interested to see exactly how they're viewed in a positive light by others.

I don't think it is nonsense. I posted this upthread.

There has been some research conducted regarding men and women's waking patterns to a crying baby.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39819066/

I struggle with believing that tbh. Its not my experience with how people view things. Most are pretty fair minded with notable exceptions.

@Robbie82 not sure what the point is of coming onto a discussion forum if you're not going to believe what anyone says.

I don't know. There's so much complaining about this issue and both sides seem to be so miserable I just think why not skip having kids altogether...

The only men at this point that want kids are those on the far right and they are NOT going to be modern men doing 50%! We're not going to change them so all there is is either accept how it'll be to get the kids you want or don't have kids.

I mean if you want to pretend that’s not the case feel free. But you know well and true you’re lying to yourself.

It’s nonsense and nonsense invented for the reasons I stated.

Probably why birth rates / marriage rates are falling and numbers of single people are increasing. Being a married single mother or with a man who does not share the domestic load is appealing to fewer women.

The only men at this point that want kids are those on the far right

The great thing about MN nowadays is that there will always be one thing you'll read and go "there it is - the stupidest thing I'll read all week".

Read the threads.

But even you are doing it by suggesting further circumstances to consider. There would be no “consideration of further circumstances” if these were mothers. In the first man only wants to do one weekend because he still “needs a life” snd there are comments saying “well it’s better than nothing”, “you can’t force him to parent more” and even the OP said he is a “good dad” because for two days a fortnight he spends time with his kid.

NONE of this would be said about a mother in the same situation.

Do you know lots of men that want kids then? I don't. Most men only want kids for status and "legacy"-something the far right are obsessed with.

Most men only want kids for status and "legacy"

Looks like I was too hasty with my earlier prouncement.

And yet here we are on yet another thread about why men are failing to step up and actually parent their kids...

I've not seen the posts you're talking about so I've no way of knowing but in terms of circumstances I mean there are always 3 sides to these stories, i.e. the 2 parents and then the absolute truth which is usually somewhere inbetween.

Of course I agree where if the only side to this is that a parent doesnt wish to spend time with a child they brought into the world then they're not doing anywhere near what they should be.

Where I mean on circumstances, as an example, is situations where one parent makes it difficult for the other or where the child is used as a pawn in the bad feeling between parents which must be tremendously hard for the parent who isnt the primary carer.

Because its a one sided discussion and I'm not convinced it's a particularly fair generalisation. Of course some aren't doing a good job, others may well be doing their very best in their circumstances.

But that's the exact point we're making. 'Their very best" for men can frequently mean a level of parenting which is laughable at best and dangerous at worst but just gets shrugged off. Just one example...man gets up in the night with young baby, it's his turn. He knew before he went to bed he'd be doing it. He gave young baby regular cows milk cos 'tired', 'wasn't really thinking' once baby was recovered from a pretty unpleasant couple days discussions were had. Responses included 'oh well, at least he tried', 'he did his best', 'YOU should have premade the bottle for him' 'most men would never get up so be grateful'.

I mean, there's no two sides to this. It happened, those were the responses. Again, anecdata, just like your very vague assertions that you can't possibly believe our stories because your limited experience is different but I could give you dozens of examples. Your responses come across as you helpfully mansplaining to us silly women that our experiences are invalid rather than actually engaging in why this is so widespread. Why do they all these wonderful men take the crap ones to task instead of laughing along at the football / pub when Dave boasts about how he's got 'her indoors' to sort it all out or isnt paying maintenance.

I'm fact actually, there's your 'proof'. if most men were great dads it would be socially unacceptable and uncool to be crap and half arsed but it's not is it? There are whole areas of the Internet dedicated to helping men avoid financially supporting their kids. It's nothing to be ashamed of in some circles , it's a "win". More generally, it's 100% normal at family parties and bbqs, weddings holidays etc for the men to sit around chatting while the women are chasing toddlers, making sure small people are fed, safe etc.

And the very point I'm making is there may well be people who do this but this thread is as if its that so many people pass off poor parenting as acceptible and I would highly doubt that. Most people are fair minded and capable of calling out poor behaviour no matter someone's gender.

To call that 'the very best for men' is pretty poor and blatantly untrue.

I've not been nasty about the point, I've not called anyone silly , I've just made the point that (though examples clearly exist) it seems extremely far fetched that loads of people believe that level of parenting is of a good standard and that anyone could be held up as a model parent for behaving that way,be them a man or woman.

That's not 'mansplaining' as much as you'd like to use the term to deflect from the actual discussion.

Not at all. I've been using this site for nearly 20 years. I've stood in playgrounds and toddler groups and on the sidelines of sports pitches and I can categorically testify that laughing off piss poor parenting from men is endemic. If you don't want to accept that and find it far fetched, that's up to you but I could equally accuse you of not listening to what you don't want to hear.

My husband is pretty useless, always has been. I threatened to move out and leave all the boys with him and his mum said you can't do that.. who will get them up for school.

Says it all really. I worked early Fri morning I said get youngest up now... I'm leaving for work I normally get him up at 6 he likes chilling having breakfast at his own pace etc. Then I messaged while at work asking If they got off ok. No he overslept and 16 year old refused to go to college

just a random Reddit thread where fathers are actually recognizing there are double standards: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/xqbdtr/absolutely_sick_of_being_celebrated_for_parenting/

I could accuse you of the same considering I've already accepted it happens. I've every right to disagree on the frequency of it and people's general perception what good/bad parenting is though and my own experiences of seeing people's reactions.

@Robbie82 you already have accused me of that. You are asserting on the basis of nothing but your own credulity that it can't possibly be a common thing. I'm asserting on the basis of nearly twenty years of being around parenting conversations that it does. Maybe if people were having a serious, thoughtful discussion they'd take a different approach but on a casual, everyday basis it is absolutely rife. If you honestly don't believe me, spend a bit of time on the parenting, relationships and AIBU boards...you'll see plenty of responses defending bare minimum male parenting.

I'm asserting on the basis of never actually having met anyone in the real world who would see someone making minimal to no effort with their child in a positive light.
I'm sure it happens which I've already acknowledged multiple times now , particularly online. I disagree its something rife or a view the majority of people hold.

If you want to think otherwise then you do you but other people are allowed to disagree.

Sure, but I'm pointing you to lots of concrete examples of it. You have not done likewise to support your view. You've said you struggle to believe what I'm saying but I'm giving you examples and telling you where to find more. Of course there are examples on both sides but I absolutely maintain and can substantiate a LOT of examples that the bar is set low for men.