Son excluded after meeting today. Was meant to be isolation. Feel sick about it

[FrostedOwl]

I dont really know where to start and sorry if this is a mess but ive just got home and my head is pounding. Had a meeting with school today about my son after an incident last week. At the time they said it would be an internal exclusion so isolation for a few days and we accepted that. I wasnt happy but i understood it and told him he’d messed up and that was that. Today’s meeting was meant to be a follow up and somehow it’s ended with him being formally excluded. Fixed term. I feel like the ground’s been pulled from under me. I keep going over the meeting in my head thinking did i miss something or did i say the wrong thing. Part of me is furious with him, part of me is angry at the school and part of me just feels like ive failed completely. Im trying to be calm but honestly im shaking typing this.

What the school said today (sorry this might be a bit long):

• the original incident was “more serious than first thought” even though nothing new has actually happened since last week
• they said his attitude in isolation wasnt good enough and he was “non compliant”
• apparently he walked out of a lesson earlier in the week when he was meant to be in isolation (i wasnt told at the time)
• they said theres a pattern of behaviour building and this exclusion is to “send a message”
• i was told they could escalate it and that they are within their rights to do so

He isnt an angel. I know that. But he also isnt violent or out of control and this feels like a big step. He’s also been school refusing on and off this term which i know doesnt help. Some mornings he just flat out refuses to go and says he cant be bothered or that theres no point. I do get him there most days but attendance isnt perfect and the school bring it up constantly like its all connected. Maybe it is, i dont know anymore.

Am i being unreasonable for feeling like this has been handled badly and too quickly or am i just defensive because its my child. I feel judged every time i walk into that building. Ive never posted on here before so sorry if ive done this wrong. I just dont know if im seeing this clearly or not.

He deserves it, his behaviour wasn't just not on towards the teacher but its upsetting an intimidating to classmates who shouldn't have to put up with his bad behaviour affecting their work or feelings.

Swearing at a member of staff used to be a fixed term suspension in my school. It's isolation now because it happens so often they couldn't keep suspending so many kids. Most of the parents of the repeat offenders really don't care and are usually the ones coming into our reception area and swearing at staff too. I don't for a minute think that's you OP.

In the last month I've been told to fuck off twice and called a cunt. I'm a good teacher. I'm kind, consistent, tough but fair. And apparently a cunt for asking a 15 year old to sit down rather than run around my classroom.

The reality is that your son could be sent to a pupil referral unit (PRU) if he keeps behaving like this. These are for students whose behaviour is too much for school to cope with. They can be quite supportive environments for young people whose behaviour can't be contained in school - small class sizes and a lot of behaviour support - but of course all the other students have behaviour problems too and subject choice will be limited.

Anyway, you are a way away from this. Is school offering him any additional support? Even if he doesn't have SEN, there should be resources available to help him. If not, try your GP, or local authority, who should have youth services for at risk yp.

Fact is, this could go in all sorts of directions. If he gets discouraged, he could school refuse full time. He could end up in something like county lines.

Best to get help now and not rely on things just getting better on their own.

My nephew went to a PRU. He kept getting excluded, it didn't help. He has a lot of mental health issues (he is an adult now). His issues weren't recognised at school, his mum never sought a diagnosis. He was punished instead of helped. It's not the only option. I hope you can get help for him.

What exactly do you want the school to do in this situation though? Imagine you are the teacher and you have a student who undermines you, is disrespectful and by they sounds of it, downright intimidating. How do you think they should respond? What would be an appropriate response? The school have very little in their arsenal in terms of managing behaviour and actually the behaviour of your child makes it so much harder for others. Do you want them to give him a hug and say it's okay?

Having spent a year in a school dealing with behaviour, I met so many parents who constantly undermined the schools authority. It's exhausting and demoralising and makes me despair for society. I couldn't work there again, I'm going back to work in prisons. It's easier.

What im planning to ask for is support alongside the sanctions. Mentoring, SEN screening, whatever they think is appropriate. Because if the message is just behave or else, history suggests that wont stick on its own.

I wouldn't lead with asking the school for things. I'd start with saying what i/DS were going to do/change to improve the situation. I'd ask (politely, constructively) if they had any suggestions for things we could do differently. The onus should not be on the school, you/or rather DS have ground to make up here. Then when you've shown you truly want to put the work in, then ask if they can support.

Asking for mentoring for him is like asking for even more attention for him that he doesn't deserve.

OP ignore the posters who are criticising your parenting and branding your son a future criminal - it's nonsense 🙄

I've worked in a PRU with kids who've been excluded permanently from a series of schools and whose behaviour was so much more challenging than your son's! They're still kids, even if they tower over you. Kids mess up, they make mistakes, they struggle to regulate their emotions and they're full of raging hormones! That doesn't mean they're destined for a life of crime or that there's something wrong with them. In fact, labelling them as 'trouble' can be a self-fullfilling prophecy! Good teachers connect with kids, boost their self-esteem, encourage their talents and don't embarrass or shame them.

It sounds like your son has taken responsibility for his behaviour and hopefully won't want a repeat of this punishment. The school refusal is more worrying as it suggests something about school is bothering him. Is there a school counsellor who can offer some support?

Truancy is when a child "goes" to school as far as the parents are aware and then they skip school refusers dont get out of the house my son would be so anxious he was flat out unwell literally fainting that was classes as school refusal even though he couldn't really help it

Reminds me of a funny exchange with a very tricky lad when I was working at a PRU - he'd just smashed up the room a bit, as you do, I'm stood there looking at him.

Pupil "what you looking at"

Me "you"

Pupil "well don't f*ing look at me"

Me "you're a bit of a wanker aren't you"

Pupil "You can't call me a wanker, I'm going to tell my mum you think I'm a wanker"

Me "Trust me, she already knows😁"

It took a few moments for his brain to make the connections and get my dry wit - the lad did OK in the end, last seen up a pole, working for openreach, could be visiting your home to instal your super fast fibre.

Whats the difference? Genuine question. Ok just saw above.

That sounds horribly familiar. I'm a retired Scottish secondary middle manager.

We had one parent about 10 yrs ago who complained at a meeting that her child was being picked on because we were 'racist'. The interpreter was too embarrassed to interpret half of what the mother was saying at the meeting. (Proving to me that this was not a professional interpreter.)

Unfortunately for the mother, I could understand what she was saying. At that point I could understand her language, provided I knew the context. I now have a Scottish surname, courtesy of my husband, so the mother didn't twig straight away - although her teenager could have forewarned her.

The irony? The teenager had previously been excluded for calling a teacher a black b*tch. The exclusion wouldn't happen in our LA nowadays. This time round, I'd been told to eff off, among other things, after I'd been called to remove the teenager from class.

I informed the depute conducting the meeting of the mother's assertions. He quickly disabused her of that notion and I asked the interpreter to tell the mother that I'm from a similar ethnic background as the mother's family. (I gather that the mother then realised that her teenager had possibly been economical with the truth.)

As others have said, it's very difficult to exclude a pupil. The pattern of behaviour outlined by the OP had the consequence of isolation. Once the OP's son failed to comply with isolation, exclusion was inevitable (given that the school is still allowed to exclude).

Well the son did not respect the teacher did he?
And if the OP won’t write it out it must have been particularly awful.
I think it would be helpful for more people to understand some of the abuse teachers face and female teachers at the end of misogynistic young men in particular.

May I direct you to the first sentence of OP's second post, which not far down on the very first page of this thread 🙄

I can see the other side of this. My kids school was full of disruptive kids, not respecting teachers or staff. Why should other kids miss out on important learning while your kid disrupts the class and the teachers have to spend their time dealing with him. Then for him to be non compliant in isolation means he really hasn't learnt anything. I do not believe it is your fault. But schools cannot keep dealing with this behaviour. Sorry I know this may not be what you want to hear.

It sounds very possible that this is an unlawful exclusion if nothing new has happened since the original decision. You should consult the School Exclusion Project or Inclusion Project or Communities Empowerment Project for advice and help as soon as possible.

School refusal never used to be a thing. Me and my friend missed ONE afternoon session when we were 15/16-that's the only time we ever "truanted". And we knew we'd be in deep shit if found out. Now kids know that going to school is "optional" as so many are refusing it. I was an anxious kid who didn't want to go either-I still did it. I thought they started fining parents for this?

You just need to focus on supporting your son and getting through to him how important it is to not be disruptive and to be respectful. Explain that in life when he leaves education and gets a job he’ll find idiots in the workplace and have to just ignore them and even do what they say if they are supervisors or managers. That is life, and if anything it’s a reason to knuckle down and work hard so he is the boss not that other idiot.

Don’t take it too hard though, it won’t make any difference in the long run if he has the right attitude going forward. When I was 14 I was excluded for 2 weeks for violence (in reality it was fighting back against bullies). They called it suspension back then.

But I left school with 7 o-levels, including several grade As then went to 6th form to do A-Levels etc.

The something 'new' is surely the fact that the boy has failed to comply with the initial sanction which was isolation?

What's his attendance?

In the 90%s = fine
80%s = a problem
70%s = horrific
60%s or below v v serious

Would have been quicker to just tell me!

You're not doing a great job. You're doing a crap job.

Your son is making the lives of the staff and his peers a misery.

When did everyone get so wet? He's not diagnosed with any specific mental health justification, he's just rude and unpleasant.

Nice children don't get suspended or expelled for swearing at teachers and trying to intimidate. Thugs do.

Utterly clueless, both of you. Emotion based school avoidance usually runs a bit deeper than just skiving off 🙄

I understand its difficult but you will do yourself no favours by looking for excuses. If you were worried about Sen you would have raised it before not just when he has sworn at a teacher and acted out. He is flexing his muscles. His friends probably thought he was cool. A three day exclusion for this behaviour is pretty normal. He would have had internal isolation for the swearing but he escalated it himself by walking out of isolation and continuing to be defiant.

OP, I feel for you, but the school running normally is more important than your son.

‘Behave or else’ is the social contract we all live by, even animals and insects. No one likes it all the time. The ‘or else’ bit is tougher for non-humans - they don’t get PRUs or counselling.

DS’s feelings as an aggressor matter less than the teacher’s safety or the other kids’ literacy level.

Ask the school for help, but remember they owe you and DS nothing - rather the opposite.

See it from everyone else’s point of view.

Why haven’t you organised anything yourself, by the way?

I know.

And that’s great you can connect with a student in that way in the environment of a PRU. That’s not a mainstream school though is it and this exchange, both language and violence, just can’t happen there.