Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

Not all men are creepy. But as the ones who are can cause a great deal of harm to women, and we don’t know which ones are or aren’t, it makes sense to err on the side of caution and treat unknown men as potential creeps until proved otherwise.

Of course not all fathers are creepy, my father is not creepy, nor is my husband and I know many other non-creepy men. But enough men are creepy that people are rightfully wary. I don't know the thread you are talking about but no man with any sense thinks it's OK to go into a women's changing room. Very few people are stupid enough to think that is acceptable, so I can see how it is interpreted as creepy.

It’s not that all fathers are creepy they clearly are not.

But as one homogeneous group right now men are entitled pricks and as they are bigger, stronger, more emboldened by online toxic influence women are on high alert and will stick together, alert each other, question any male and their behaviour in the area.

It’s for men to call out other men so that women can not be so suspicious all the time. As a male you need to be part of the solution not the problem but I expect you smile along to not cause a scene when out with your friends. Until men can sort themselves out and social media is flooded with “don’t be a dick” posts and the characteristics admired between men changes then yes you will be a creepy guy until proven otherwise.

Not a female’s social problem. This is by men and for men to sort out.

But yeah hey come on a predominantly female message site, you should be posting on male sites saying “hey guys I can’t play with my daughter in a playground without it causing suspicion clearly we are fucking up here”

For reference - it's this one:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5480228-dads-using-female-communal-changing-room

And I agree that it's inappropriate - I just disagree with the opinion that this must be some kind of pervert. He might just be ignorant, used to pools were mixed changing was common or simply did not think.

But that's obviously an extreme case - I was more wondering about the general suspicion many mothers have towards fathers (fathers with children present, obviously).

I just wonder whether one could find a way to make it easier for everyone involved - but I can't see an obvious solution.

"a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive."

How could that happen? Why would a father be in there?

Well my Dad wasn’t. He was the best father I could have hoped for. The father of my children wasn’t - he was a great Dad. 👍

Of course all men are not creepy. I am sometimes appalled by the instinctive reactions against men in relation to young children on MumsNet. I don’t even think it makes sense to treat all men as creeps until proven otherwise, and sadly I have known if SA committed against young DC by a woman.

I think all children benefit from wholesome relationships with both men and women, and older boys and girls.

But I agree that we always need to stay attuned to the possibility that something isn’t right, and the statistics do point much more often to problems with men. I hope that you can appreciate that the women asking after your DD are just exhibiting an abundance of caution. It takes a village, and all that.

My home region is more relaxed about changing and even I was shocked by that changing room thread.

Wouldn't a predominantly female site be the place to learn and understand? I don't necessarily know what makes you feel uncomfortable.

"I just wonder whether one could find a way to make it easier for everyone involved - but I can't see an obvious solution."

Could men not just read the sign on the door that says 'FEMALE CHANGING ROOM'.

"I don't necessarily know what makes you feel uncomfortable."

And therein lies the fucking problem. Have a bloody think.

Could posters not simple read what I wrote and see that this is a generic question deliberately separate from the thread?

YANBU. I do think that some women have gone a bit far with what they call 'creepy behavior'. Most women have it in perspective but I've met a few who seem to treat any interaction with a man they don't know that's not in a work or shop/restaurant service situation to be dodgy somehow.

I don’t buy the ‘he’s just ignorant or just didn’t think’ bullshit.

Can anyone have really missed the hot topic that is men in women’s spaces? Men that do this are pervs or like women to feel uncomfortable whilst certain people make excuses for them. There is no excuses. No good men go in women’s spaces. It’s very simple.

Then men should educate themselves and stop being ‘ignorant and have a lack of judgement.’ (See thread about women being secretly filmed, and how it will affect the poor men.)

Your one experience does not balance the unending experiences women have to endure.

It all depends- to be honest you kind of sound like you live in a Stephen king book if every man is creeping like that! Some people are just wary and scared of all men, must be hard

As far as I can see, the replies on that thread are not saying that all men are creepy, or even that the particular men in question are creepy. What they are saying is that those men are prioritising the safety and comfort of their own DDs, while entirely disregarding the comfort of other female children using the facilities. That may not be creepy but it is, at best, inconsiderate.

And to be quite honest OP, you coming here to tell women they’re doing it wrong says a lot about you.

These fucking men on this site are some of the worst. So annoying.

Could men not simply think of all the small things they might do because they 'didn't think' and draw generic conclusions from them.

This thread is a man asking women to think because men don't.

With a child to help them get changed for swimming and didn’t realise the girl should be in male changing with him even though he is staying dressed.

It’s an easy mistake to make if you don’t know this is the rule. There should always be a sign on the outside of the changing room doors where child swimming lessons take place

But the original thread was about whether the woman who saw it should complain and obviously the answer is yes!

I just wonder whether one could find a way to make it easier for everyone involved - but I can't see an obvious solution.

What do you mean? Make it easier for everyone or for men?

It would be easier for women if men didn't invade women's spaces, if men didn't kill or injure women, if men didn't rape children, or women, or perve over women or girls (and I'm including my young teen girls in that). Is that what you mean?

Am I allowed to open a thread to ask if all women are bitches? Or would that be inappropriate?

No they are not all creepy, but many, too fucking many, are thoughtless and entitled.

Why would a man not be able to stop and think -‘ that’s the women’s changing room, maybe some of the females in there would prefer I don’t go in, so I won’t’

Those are the creeps.

With a child to help them get changed for swimming and didn’t realise the girl should be in male changing with him even though he is staying dressed.

effing hell- do we actually think little girls should get dressed in a man’s changing room? What the hell?! One little girl in a room full of men?

It doesn't matter if he's a pervert or not, he shouldn't be in there and enough men are perverts that it's not really beyond the realms of possibility that he is, in fact, a pervert.

Innocent men will find themselves under suspicion at times. Sucks to be them I suppose, but women aren't responsible for men's feelings. We have to put up with dozens of difficulties due to men, so a few hurt feelings is a small price to pay for being the dominant sex.