School Readiness

[MissLead]

So on the news this morning it was reported that 37% of kids going to school in UK are not deemed ‘ready’ often lacking basic speech and not being toilet trained.

Assuming these kids have no medical conditions - there must be some bloody lazy parents out there!!

We do a little rhyme - "up to your tum, and over your bum" - with a little bum wiggle on the last bit to make them laugh 😂

This is a fair point. My daughter had encopresis and was having accidents almost daily for a couple of weeks in Reception until we realised what was going on and she was medicated and kept off school for a week for "disimpaction".

Not anyone's fault and nothing to do with her not being potty trained. I'd hope that she didn't fall under figures of children starting school "unready" because she absolutely was ready in September.

My kids are teen age but when they were starting school nursery, they had to be toilet trained or they couldn't start.

Always make me laugh when people blame two working parents. Does anyone honestly believe the families where this is happening is two working parents?

Gentle parenting just means not hitting or shouting at kids it doesnt mean not being in charge or upholding standards.

I definitely think in regards to the potty training in particular the new-er opinion of ‘waiting until the child is ready’ has caused this issue. Children don’t just become ready the longer they’re in nappies, it’s the opposite - they get too used to wearing nappies. Parents have to take the lead with this. So many friends who have started potty training have stopped within hours or a couple of days because they were having accidents and therefore ‘not ready’. I know many 3 and 4 year olds in nappies. SEN is used too readily as an excuse. Obviously many times it is a valid reason but it’s not the case for all SEN children.

And all the SEN kids? Not sure why people say this like it is a good thing?

Society is messed up though. Why do two parents now have to be working to raise children? There’s a fertility and birth rate crisis and yet it’s still extremely expensive to raise kids and then on top of full time work parents have to potty train children before school age whilst being just as productive at work as their non child raising coworkers.

This is a societal problem, we need to fix the financial impact on families of having kids, give them back some of their time so they can actually spend it raising them.
You think the parents are potty training while they’re fixing someone’s leaky tap? Or in a board meeting? Or answering emails?

We want productive people, like those in full time work, to have kids to be raised well and also be productive and yet allowance is not given for the fact it is very difficult to be working and raise kids well.

This is cute 😀

I worked in a day nursery from the early 2000s til around 2010, most of the kids had two parents working full time (something that is often mentioned as a reason for not potty training) it was extremely rare for a child to get to their 3rd birthday without being potty trained, I could probably count one on hand the amount of kids who were still in nappies at that age in the whole 7-8 years I was there (excluding those with disabilities) so I just cannot fathom that being an excuse for not doing it.

Thank you for this. It seems extremely sensible. My children are in their early 30s. I was a SAHM when they started school and I spent a lot of time helping out in class and going on trips as a parent helper. I was also a school governor for many years. I can confidently say that hardly any children turning up at our mainstream primary school back then would have been described as not ready for school using that definition. Many children in Reception and KS1 occasionally wet or soiled themselves at school, which was expected, but turning up in nappies would have been exceptionally rare unless the child had a medical condition or disability.

Obviously children varied a lot in how well they could sit still, take turns, listen carefully and not interrupt. Some had poor language, some had clearly not had much chance to look at books or listen to stories. Not all of them were good eaters or adept with cutlery. Some would have struggled with lacing shoes, but velcro was becoming the standard for little ones' school shoes, so that wasn't a big deal. But by and large they were able to cope with school life reasonably well.

There are two obvious big changes since the 1990s. Internet/social media is one and two parents working full-time is the other. I knew a fair number of families with two working parents back then but it was much more common for the mother (almost always, very occasionally the father) to be working part-time while the children were little, and there were plenty of SAHMs. Even with the eyewatering cost of childcare now that's not affordable for many these days. It must make life a lot harder.

This thread is making me want to scream. Most of the school starting age kids I work with with SEND are toilet trained at an appropriate age. Yes some SEND will affect toilet training and different approaches will need to be taken, but SEND does not equal delayed toilet training across the board.

I think England’s health visiting services are hugely lacking. Parents are more isolated than ever. They need that guidance they would traditionally have had from their communities.

This is from the charity who commissioned the survey and seems well measured:

Felicity Gillespie, the chief executive of Kindred Squared, said: “The state of school readiness has reached a critical moment, with 37% of children now arriving at the school gate without the basic life skills needed to engage with the curriculum.
“This is no longer just a classroom issue; it is a systemic crisis fuelled by stretched school resources, low expectations, the rising cost of living, and by parents who lack the right information and understanding early enough to truly support their children’s development.”

Ineffectual parenting is the problem. The parents who just can't somehow manage to control their children in a kind but firm and effective way and who seem to feel saying no or insisting on something being done even when the child doesn't want to is somehow abusive. Well, no, it isn't. The world doesn't revolve around the child and it's not kind to let the child believe it does.

Agree re lack of investment in early years services like Sure Start and Health Visiting. And yes, toilet training is still a parent’s job but that’s where the information, advice and support would come from.

I’d be interested to see what the stats are like for Scotland where children start school a little bit later. I think uniform needs to be relaxed for early years. I wonder how many children would manage the toilet better in simpler clothing rather than things with buttons and fastenings. Also it is quite a change going from a free flow nursery setting where you just take yourself off to the toilet when you need to, to a structured classroom where the toilets are along a corridor and you have to ask to go.

Poor parenting is very rarely called out. People aren’t ever held accountable for poor decisions or downright laziness. Sadly I don’t have the answers but the bar is ridiculously low on what makes a good parent.

This is given as an excuse every time there is a thread on this. But there has always been some parents who work full time/long hours/have long commutes/had to pay rent or mortgages. They managed to have potty trained children who were ready to start school.

No, of course I know that poverty isn't a new thing.
However, what is a 'new thing' compared with with 30 years ago, is the significant increase in absolute poverty (meaning lacking capacity to afford the basics of survival.)
So while in the 90s 34% of children grew up in relative poverty, compared with 30% today; being in poverty today means typically being much worse off, as in so poor you can't afford food, heat and adequate shelter. 2 6m children in the UK are from households at this level of poverty. These are the families I'm talking about who may struggle to provide books as a priority.
Which isn't a new thing either. Children in poverty have throughout history had poorer access to means of education and poorer outcomes as a result.

Both surely? Ffs this is real parenting basics!

That's disappointing. I feel very strongly that learning through play is the most appropriate thing for most under 7s.

Scotland has worse stats for school attendance as it isn’t clamped down on in the same way that it is in England. So many kids don’t get to school here as their parents can’t be bothered to get out of bed and take them. It has massively deteriorated of late too.

The report is interesting and highlights how low parents expectations can be for both children and themselves. I think this is why, whilst all the structural and social issues are undeniably factors, it is in my opinion problematic to absolve parents of responsibility. Society does need to call neglect out as well as put structures in place to reduce it and support parents.

There is another thread on here where a mother has been habitually late to school - everyday in fact - and is upset to be called out for it. This lack of care and responsibility - towards your own kids, teachers and other children in the school - appears to be a factor across the board.

One of mine took a year, had an undiagnosed illness affecting toileting. The other took about 5 years... Yes 5 years. Undiagnosed SEN.

Not all children can be easily potty trained

But many are if the effort is put in?

Yup. Kids need to get to school on time every day. The same kids are late on a daily basis and it’s down to lazy parenting. Disrupting classes on a daily basis.