Moral dilemma - should 6 year old DS be made to confess?

[Ricecrispiesatsix]

6 year old DS had a friend round yesterday to play Lego Star Wars. The friend brought a couple of figurines with him including the Emperor Palpatine and the boys played for hours together so nicely. It was really lovely to see DS (who has quite niche, geeky interests) find a school friend he connects with.

When it came to leave, the friend couldn’t find the Emperor Palpatine, we looked everywhere, DS offered to let him borrow his millennium falcon instead which was suspiciously generous of him….

Well you can probably guess what happened later. We found Emperor P hidden in DS’s “secret drawer”. He basically stole from his friend and lied to us about it. He was distraught and ashamed when we found out because he knows he made a bad choice.

He will of course be made to return Emperor P to the friend but should we make him own up to stealing it, or is it ok for him to simply say “I found it”? DS is worried his friend won’t want to play with him anymore. And that would be a shame. DS is generally a lovely gentle boy and he is remorseful, the temptation was just too much! I do want to teach him honesty though and worry if we don’t encourage him to confess we are saying that lying by omission is ok.

YABU - make him confess
YANBU - it’s ok for him to give it back and just say “I found it”

I have already explicitly stated that he shouldn't be called bad.

While labeling a child negatively can damage self esteem and hurt attempts to get them to try to be the opposite, they also hurt motivation to do what's needed to live up to a positive label. (Because people, kids included, who think they're inherently good/clever/thoughtful anyway, don't tend to put as much effort into the actions needed to actually be good/clever/thoughtful as people who associate it with doing good/clever/thoughtful things). Aspirational labeling when used in moderation seems to be useful for making children feel positive. But used too much, and especially when used in the wrong way, it can also lead to a lack of effort. Generally better to talk about/praise/call out actions and their impact without making it about an identity.

At 6, I wouldn’t force him to confess to taking it. It’s not an acceptable thing to do, but it’s an understandable one for a 6 year old. If he did it again after feeling the impact of doing it this time (shame, guilt, fear of losing friends) then I would make him confess to hammer the lesson home. But I think he gets one strike to learn the lesson without serious consequences.

If he were older, the answer would be different. But that’s also partly because I feel both children would be better able to hash out their feelings objectively, rather than the knee jerk “not friends anymore” reaction that his 6 year old friend would probably have now.

He has to learn that stealing is wrong.
Because that is what did. Steal his best friends chershed posseison.

I realise that he his only six.But maybe the friend will not want to play with hiim again because of this incident.

Mmmm no. It’s just factual. Poster is saying that they have a different view to most and that of course one is entitled to have different views.

Stating that Brits do passive agression is not racism it’s just factual.

Stating they wouldn’t pose the question, again not aggressive, nor passive.

Poster appears to have a strong moral compass and it’s something that they believe children should be instilled with. It’s not unreasonable.

Where is the line drawn? Actions have consequences, it’s a good thing to learn.

I certainly would not have thought to steal a friend‘s toy at 6 and hide it! But then I am that person that will point out to a server if they have not charged me for something/ notify the company if I get sent something twice.

FWIW I think you handled it perfectly, OP. He’s 6, it’s a small toy that is back with its owner, he’s upset about what happened, that’s enough. There’s no need to make it into a bigger thing than it is. I bet he won’t ever do it again.

No I wouldn’t make him confess.

I would be having very firm words about stealing though and telling him that it isn’t acceptable.

What I would not have done is take him toy shopping the next day to buy himself the stolen toy! Regardless of whose money it was being bought with… it still seems like a reward for what was unacceptable behaviour.

Bonkers! The child steals and his 'punishment' is to get to buy the toy

This first post nails it. Owning up to the bad decision shows great strength. The friend may value the honesty and decency.

I agree, and honestly if that friend wants to step back from the friendship or doesn’t trust your son anymore, then that’s a natural consequence for having stolen from him.

Undoubtedly a hard lesson, but a good one.

Owning up to the bad decision shows great strength. The friend may value the honesty and decency.

The friend is 6, FFS. He would not have had the maturity to see it that way.

He’s 6. Let it go.

He feels guilty. He is really sorry and knows he has done wrong. Don't be too rigid and morally superior like some posters suggest.
He is only 6 for God's sake. At this age it isn't too uncommon. Ask any teacher of 6yr olds.
He is sorry. He knows he is in the wrong. You have spoken seriously to him. Don't ruin his friendship. It would be spread all over the class. Too much for him.

This 100%.
I wonder how many of the ' rigid disciplinarians' who have answered actually have kids of their own.

Interesting point, but I think that the real reason we don't steal is our fundamental sense of justice and the desire to be true to ourselves. Other people's pain doesn't always come into it - you don't not steal a sweet from store because someone will be sad if you do steal it...

Think about how many of us have stories of stealing something inconsequential as children, and having the guilt of that moment be a life changing and memorable thing. I doubt we remember losing a small toy or sweet with that extreme intensity. In these childhood examples, the crime of stealing is more painful for the criminal than for the victim.

I think this translates into a bigger truth. We have standards of behaviour for ourselves which are based on abstract analysis of what is right and how other people should be treated, not based on whether this particular moment is going to hurt someone, otherwise you get: 'She'll never know I slept with Betty from accounts, so it's ok', or ' The Met has so many works of art- it doesn't matter if I take some small ones' (actual recent example).

People are different. Actually a very large proportion of people follow the rules not because of innate sense of justice or innate need to comply with the norms (it is often a minority), but because there is a clear deterrent - there is societal judgement and then there are hard consequences in a legal form. And there is a proportion of people for whom even this is not a deterrent (they usually end up criminals or people like Bernie Madoff. or politicians I guess!)

Of course you are right and that is why people often follow rules, but I was trying to reflect, not on rules, but on right and wrong. We often try to help children develop a sense of what is right, and I think occasionally we underestimate the sophistication of their understanding. All parents have to deal with this constantly... your 3 year old grabs something from a baby, the baby cries for a moment and starts playing with something else. The parent then tries different approaches- stating the rule: 'We don't grab', and appealing to compassion: 'Susie is sad you took her toy'. Often neither approach is quite convincing, and I was musing on why. I think a child as young as 3 can see the abstract truth that even when someone is unaware of injustice it still is not right.

Well tonight I was commenting on how well behaved our kids are and DS said “I’m not though mummy. Is stealing the emperor well behaved?” which kind of broke my heart a bit. He has obviously internalised that he did something bad.

Bless him.
He needs to know (and I'm sure he does) he is a good, well loved boy, who did a bad thing. He has learned from his mistake and won't ever do it again.

Assure him it's in the past, and to forget about it now.

I think that’s not all bad, OP.

You can make it clear that he’s a good boy who made a mistake. He’ll make other mistakes, because that’s part of growing up. The most important thing is that he knows he can come to you and his father for support.

Also, if you’ve quoted him accurately he hasn’t conflated misbehaving with being a bad boy. That’s huge.

He sounds a very sweet kid.

He is only contrite and renorseful because he got caught out! Where was the remorse and contrition when his friend thought he had lost his special toy and you were all hunting high and low for it?
6 is plenty, plenty old enough to know stealing is very wrong. I would have a very serious talk about it. How his friend felt when he thought his special toy had gone and impose a consequence such as no play dates until he can be trusted with other other people's things!

How would you test the “he can be trusted” rule?

Just say you found it somewher, then talk to your boy. He has probably learned his lesson anyway.

He seems to have learnt his lesson, toy given back, you told him he should not have done it, end of. Too harsh in my opinion to make him confess all to his friend! It might circulate, he could be bullied etc.

Thete obviously isn't a way. It is what she tells her ds to make him see the natural consequence to his actions.

Of course there is no way, because he’s too young!

So 6 is not plenty plenty old enough to understand?