Mixed sex changing rooms?

[Whatschanged]

Has something changed in society around changing/fitting rooms in shops or have I just had two unusual incidents? Or am I being ridiculous?!

A couple of weeks ago I was in the adult men’s section of Next with my 13 year old son, he needed to try on some jeans, a very tall but slim lad, so definitely doesn’t fit in the children’s section anymore. Men’s is upstairs with the homeware, women’s and kids downstairs, both floors have changing rooms. He went in to try them on and I waited completely outside by the lifts. While I was waiting an adult woman walked in the changing rooms to try something on, I was quite surprised, and gave her an odd look (very British of me, sorry) but she blanked me. I thought, well it’s not the end of the world but I’d be a bit more shocked at a grown man going in the changing room downstairs next to the women's clothes when my 13 year old daughter was in their alone (I don't have daughters though).

This weekend I was in M&S, women’s and children’s clothing downstairs, and there is a fitting room, women’s underwear and men’s clothing and cafe upstairs, there is a fitting room by the men’s clothes and a fitting room my the women’s underwear. I went in the fitting rooms by the women’s underwear to try some bras on, and there was a lady loitering around the cubicles, when I got in I heard what I presume was a little boys voice, perhaps about 6 years old and a grown mans voice (could have been an older teenager or a fully grown man, I never saw them, but a broken, older mans voice). The ‘man’ was helping the ‘boy’ with the clothes and the woman was outside the cubicle asking how it was going etc. I was really surprised, why wasn’t the grown man with the boy in the men’s changing room? Or why wasn’t the woman (presume mum) in there with him?! I was there with my boobs out, what if I wanted a fitting? M&S has lockable doors but Next it’s just curtains.

So I just thought perhaps something has changed and now people just wonder in whatever fitting room they fancy, or is this a bit weird?

YANBU – men should go in men’s, women in women’s, children that require assistance should go in whatever changing room matches the adult.

YABU – stop being so precious, you’re normally in individual locked cubicles anyway so what on earth does it matter!

hysteria

Bingo!

No men (no matter what they or other people call them) in what should be women only single sex spaces.

Feel free to choose to use mixed sex spaces.

Ooh! I'll just pop off and share your bold new vision with my daughter. She'll be ecstatic 😅

Most women who think that women should have women only single sex spaces would not claim that women as a group are "safe".

We recognise that as a group they are safer than men as a group.

And that the removal of single sex spaces is not something which benefits women as a whole.

Safeguarding is about recognising there is a risk and the risk for women changes in any space which allows men.

Thinking about the posts so far.

Who has argued that women (and men) should ignore the added risk involved ?

Who is arguing that some men but not all men should be given access to what should be a womans single sex space just because he wants to be there?

where?

There are absolutely no changing rooms in the kids sections in my local:
Next
M&S (even if they have less and less kids clothes)
H&M
Primark!

You are amazing if you can judge by eye, my children need to try their trousers/jeans on to know if they fit or not. I don't care if they have the patience or not, they need trousers!

sharing that her mum should have held the curtain for her instead of sending evil eyes to other customers that were minding their own business? yes, you do that 😂

When places are busy lots of women have always happily gone in the mens changing rooms and even toilets (in theatres etc) to avoid having to queue. Lots of venues / shops obviously decided its easier to just make everything unisex. No big deal if there are cubicles.

thankfully, more and more stores are offering mixed sex changing room - which in that context makes perfect sense, so soon this thread will be completely redundant and the problem solved.

Mad idea!

Males just keep out of what should be women only single sex spaces.

If they cant work out if they are male ask a doctor for help in working that out or take a dna test.

It is a simple solution no need for the shop to do anything.

If you want extra mixed sex provision ask for it as a fourth space.

Yep You must have upset someone.

Allowing posts like that to stand allows readers to understand who is objecting to women only single sex spaces

Thankfully? When data shows that mixed sex changing rooms are putting women and girls at increased risk of sexual assault and voyeurism?

Slow hand clap for you.

Yep the answer is never zero

Always ends up being N+1

If you read back through my posts, you will see that I haven’t suggested that men should be in women only single sex spaces.

Personally, I am happy to use single sex or mixed, as long as cubicles are provided. But then I made that clear about ten pages back.

I don’t need your permission to use either.

Yet some men still use mixed sex toilets as if they are in men only single sex spaces.

And men loose out when urinals are removed and loose if they must share toilets with women who due to basic biological differences need extra time.

And if mixed sex toilets are installed by design the overall provision will be reduced.

Only if the provision for women only single sex spaces remain.

If not women as a sex class are disadvantaged.

I would not and have not offered my permission for you to use any space.

You might read my post.

When you are you saying If they cant work out if they are male ask a doctor for help in working that out or take a dna test.
do you mean the shop STAFF should have a doctor on call to check? Seriously? 😂

And why are you so obsessed with "males"? You don't care when FEMALE are in male changing rooms?

you are on a wind-up, I should have realised. For a minute I thought your posts were genuine and serious, if completely over-the-top.

You got me 😂

Haven’t you?

”Feel free to choose to use mixed sex space.”

If they are locked cubicles they are probably more secure than most swimming pools that have unisex changing rooms. Most will have staff monitoring then.

You read the bit that this was a woman's change room (for the hard of hearing - not mixed), they were men who were not trans identifying, and they had been asked to leave by the shop assistant, right?

deleted again.

We are, seemingly, not allowed to mention the fact that children have been harmed by trans identifying men or to ask how many children have to be harmed before posters acknowledge that allowing men into single sex spaces poses a risk to women and children because a poster thinks this is a personal attack.

This is disappointing of Mumsnet. This is a parenting site everyone should be interested in the safety of children. I thought the days of this kind of deletion was behind us. But sadly I am wrong.

Well someone is upset.

Answering how many women and girls can be subjected to sexual assaults to justify a ideology which enables mens access is always awkward.

Dear Readers
MN has had some brave believers who have given an actual number.
Some nice posters have just dismissed known CSA victims as an acceptable price.

Yes the deletions have started ever since a certain poster said ‘I’m done with you etc’. They’re still on the thread, just reporting instead of posting.

I’ve taken a close interest in the thread so I know what the deleted posts said one of which was mine and I would love to know why