Question for Clique Mums or those who have dealt with them

[Aadamsfamily]

I have my suspicions but please help a girl out.

New to the school, I was showered with a lot of interest from a particular mum (the head mum), and although suspicious of her motives, I accepted her invitation in an attempt to comfort my child before the term started at the new school.

Though still suspicious, everything seemed to be going well. We went out outside of school a few times, she watched over my kid. At times I felt massively uncomfortable and exhausting as there seemed to be a desperate attempt to include me in this circle of people but everyone was so … nice. But then there were weird things like, I was gently scolded for asking for help from others and not this particular mum and I also noticed, stories about her personal life and preferences didn’t quite match what I saw.

And one day, it all abruptly stopped. All of a sudden really busy, all of them particularly the henchman. They all went from being kind and messaging back and forth to an abrupt end. It was bizarre considering I had been out for dinner with them and everything seemed fine. And in all honesty, they weren’t bitchy people. They never did talk ill of people but instead just talked about fun experiences and shared stories.

Cant for the life of me get play dates with my child, I’ve stopped asking across the board. All of a sudden too busy to see me but I sort of know their schedule, none of them work.

The only thing I can think of is that I’m not wealthy. They’re very wealthy.

One of them, will take my child out according to whenever it suits them, and then when we ask, no reply. But I know this person literally has their phone on their face all of the time.

School runs are a bit weird now, I don’t feel comfortable enough to approach them anymore therefore avert my eyes.

The only other thing I can think of is that the head of the gang doesn’t like a particular parent and I was once speaking to that person. That being said, strangely as when it suit the mood of the main one they will be so warm and hug me.

I’m just confused and it’s just a bit weird.

I don’t mind in the sense that I found the outings exhausting and I like to mostly sit at home and read book after book after book, in my pyjamas, no bra and just wrapped in a blanket.

I won’t lie and say that I’m not trying to figure out what went sideways but I genuinely can’t think of what I did wrong. 😑 However I do know in my old school, this happened to other mums that I was friends with so I know it happens. I just wonder whether they were just measuring me up and then disposed of me once they were done with me.

i did notice at one of the outings, the useful mums were invited. Those with some status whether it be in school or in their private life.

Sorry, haven't rtft but just to say I read the title as Clinique Mums (even though I know the word clique) and was intrigued to find out what this was. 🤦‍♀️😆 think I need some sleep.

Probably the money. If.they all.have money and you dont..

I only read the first page but I'm hoping this nonsense Big Little Lies AI type fantasy drivel has some more interesting twists and turns by page 7 😆

You’ll never know because there will probably not be a real reason. This happens a lot in many schools, in many school playgrounds and has been going on for decades. Best to not take in personally, not get in involved anymore but remain polite and keep it to friendly but not try for anything more. Xx

You didn’t like them right from the start. You were suspicious of all of them for no reason at all when they were just trying to get to know you.

Now they have fallen away because they have given up. They are just people. It’s not their responsibility to continually try to bring you in to their friendship group.

They tried, you do t like them, they stopped.

@Aadamsfamily I mean this in the kindest way I can, but I think you will probably find that your outlook on all this is the main reason why you are excluded from this group (if you actually have).

I see so many threads like this from women full of language about "bitches" and "cliques" and convincing themselves that school is a kind of female freemasonry. "Head mum" is taking it to a new level.

You can't win if you look at the world like this. You are conditioning yourself to be treated badly because you are projecting an image of yourself as begging to be let into the group all the time. Whether this is how you feel or not, if you accept the logic of this hierarchy you are accepting that your place is determined by it. Have some self-respect and stop asking to be admitted to it.

From long experience I know the vast vast majority of this is paranoia. In the vast majority of cases the "exclusion" which people talk about is only in their own heads and they whip themselves up into a frenzy talking about "bitchy cliques". If they genuinely have tried to exclude you (which I seriously doubt), the only way to manage it is to ignore, smile sweetly and pretend it never happened.

But from what you've said when you're talking to people you're exuding this paranoid language to them which makes people want to give you a wide berth. As a PP has said, people can smell this a mile off: they can smell the neediness and the paranoia and it's a kind of subconscious revulsion. No one wants to constantly be made to feel guilty about not including someone. If people liked you at first, they will be put off by your sense of your own self-disgust.

Impossible to know in your case whether the exclusion is real or in your own head (I'd bet good money it's in your head but I can't know for sure). Either way, it's taking up far far too much space in your head and you're not doing yourself or your child any favours with this paranoid mindset. I seriously (not trying to be unkind) recommend you get some counselling to try to understand why you see the world like this.

Groups of women who are friends might appear as cliques to those outside, but are just groups of people who are friends or know each other well. Can feel like you're excluded, but its literally probably people just enjoying being with their friends and not realising other people want to join in?

Surely out of a class of 30, not all the mums are in one massive clique? Is it just people want to be in the 'popular' group - like at school?

Yep. There are threads like this almost daily and a lot of it seems to be triggered by the fact that women expect an instant social life on a plate when their kids start school and then get huffy and paranoid when other people have pre-existing friendships.

It makes me worry quite a lot about the mental health and resilience of people that they take this so personally.

Exactly. It’s people’s unrealistic expectations that are giving them grief here, not other people’s behaviour.

It’s never male friendship groups that are called “cliques” is it?

Cliques amongst adults do exist. But more often than not when you see a “cliques” post on here it’s pretty clear it’s just an established friendship group. It’s hard to break into an established friend group and they are not obliged to include you.

And I say that as the person who usually doesn’t fit in!

So the answer to that poster's question was simply "yes, I have reciprocated" but you've given a really over-thought, cryptic answer.

Are you an over thinker who makes communication more complicated than it needs to be?

Sounds confusing. Think you’ve been unlucky - roll on the years they can make their own arrangements!

This is me drop off smile quick chat with anyone who is around, off to work, but there definitely is drama and I hate to say it but it's the mums who don't work, I think they put too much focus on the school group. What's interesting is that my pleasant interactions but disinterest in getting properly involved seems to provoke something in them, they're often trying to get me to go out with them or meet up with the DC. I say yes sometimes for DS' sake, but I haven't really got time and I've got my own friends. Roll on secondary school!

School mum groups are a strange thing indeed
motherland was a huge hit for a reason, it resonates with people

these groups tend to follow that structure
there usually a queen bee, (Amanda types)then there’s several lackies to the queen bee, that basically suck up to her and follow like sheep (ann types)
people that are always after something like childcare without ever returning the favour (julia types)

the school mum groups are a unique thing really, as it can also affect your child, which is why so many people fall into the above as they are so keen for the child and them to fit in
where as there other friendships in life don’t really affect their children
so the dynamics are really quite different

a lot of it is nosey, they want to know all about your life where you live, what you do what your dh does, how you live your life, they get thirsty for information as they like to judge and compare, size people up

they tend to have an inner circle, of say 3/4 people then they will add a few other here and there, rinse them for all the info etc, because they love to gather info, monitoring spirt style, then they will often discard the ones they’ve added when either they’ve gathered all the info they want or they find that they’ve got bored with that person
that why sometimes you’ll see some included then not
like in the nights out that they post on FB
and they inner circle also get bored with each other so that why they add others

to entertain them because they are bored
the will butch about each other and goss out about each other
they are not real friends and you will do yourself a favour to not get too involved as there will be people in that clique that wish they weren’t

my advice
smile say hello, be friendly and polite instigate playdates for your child
just don’t get sucked in to becoming or thinking they are your real friends
don’t share anything you don’t want spreading so be careful what info you share
be aware they gossip about each other
and they are not real friends

and for your friendships focus on your real ones that you have already or in your away from school life
and if you need more friends find them from some sort of hobby that’s for you etc
don’t over invest

Probably because it would involve dealing with you, and they’ve decided they don’t want to do that anymore?

As pp’s have said, I can only imagine that your suspicion of them became obvious. If you read back your posts, the language you use about people, (even the new people you now engage with and like), is very judgmental and ‘boxy’ I.e. you put people into defined boxes.
I don’t think you’ve explained why you are naturally wary/suspicious of people, but it’s a shame because it sounds like these mums did make a huge effort with you and your uncertainty around them has lost you and your DC an opportunity.

Cliques tend to happen when people allow them. I agree with other comments that the OPs language definitely has an element of playing into that concept.
FWIW, I'm not in a school clique, I work full time and long hours, so I have no time for playground networking (I barely have time for the half a dozen "IRL" friends!). I manage a speedy drop off and pick ups are a combo of grandparents, dad and afterschool clubs. If there are Cliques at my DD's school, I'm none the wiser and more than happy to keep it that way.

With respect and kindness, there definitely seems to be an element of social awkwardness / insecurity from OP that is likely been an influence in this. Being suspicious isn't a normal or healthy trait when someone is showing kindness, and OP tells us she admitted her suspicion early on in the friendship, which for me, would have felt very awkward to here that. That paired with the comments about social status (which based on OP's comment doesn't seem to be a position that has came from the group at all) I suspect the other mums have interpreted you as too high maintenance and didn't want the emotional labour from a brand new friendship.

That paired with the number if comments from OP saying "I don't care about the friendships, only my child's" but the child is still friends with the mums' kids at school, and still getting invited to playdates, doesnt make sense. It's perfectly OK to make this about you OP, but I think you need to think more closely about your motives and emotions as to why this is affecting you.

On in a final note of self-reflection, if I was a parent that had tried to make friends with another, I felt I did nothing wrong and suddenly the other parent "averted their eyes" and blanked me, I would find that quite rude.

I hope OP finds a friendship group that renders this experience as a complete non event and maybe gets the chance to do a bit of reflection.

Tbh it didn’t sound like you liked them or wanted to hang out with them and you felt awkward and disliked their efforts… maybe they just got the picture?

Also, OP are you autistic? Because the way you speak about people makes me think you don’t quite understand nuances and maybe see people in terms of labels.

Can you not ask the other muns about this group?

@emmas123

With respect and kindness, there definitely seems to be an element of social awkwardness / insecurity from OP that is likely been an influence in this. Being suspicious isn't a normal or healthy trait when someone is showing kindness, and OP tells us she admitted her suspicion early on in the friendship, which for me, would have felt very awkward to here that. That paired with the comments about social status (which based on OP's comment doesn't seem to be a position that has came from the group at all) I suspect the other mums have interpreted you as too high maintenance and didn't want the emotional labour from a brand new friendship.

I agree with this. It's never a sound strategy to approach a friendship in the position of being needy or suspicious. Even if that suspicion is merited.

Put yourself in the shoes of these people. They are presumably busy people with limited bandwidth for more "stuff" to worry about. They meet someone via the school mums network who immediately throws out all this suspicion and paranoia about their behaviour and starts talking about status and hierarchy. No one in their right mind wants to deal with this. You might, at a push, indulge this in a very old friend who was going through difficult times. But not from an acquaintance. It's just too much, too soon and people don't have the energy.

People (on here and in real life) often expect friendships to go from 0-60 in 60 seconds and then get upset when other people can't match that. It's wildly unrealistic. Just chill about it, stop reacting to it and see where it takes you.

Maybe they are a bitchy clique, maybe (probably) they are just a group of mates who are a bit nonplussed by your behaviour. Either way, you won't help yourself by being paranoid and testing them all the time.

OP I think the fact that you are asking these people, who you barely know, to take your child out is1. Weird, 2. Shows bad safety judgement, 3. rude 4. Presumptuous. 5. Entitled.

This might be why you have been frozen out.

It does sound rather intense, but it would be interesting to hear it from their perspective. Just remember that no-one owes you friendship or their time and they are probably all good friends. It's much easier to try to befriend people individually, but maybe people are just busy? I worked 4 days a week when DDs were at primary school and didn't have time for friendship drama.

If you like to read, how about joining or starting a book club?

OP said she doesn't want friends. She's only interested in her child having friends.

I worked with a woman who said she wasn't interested in having friends. She said she didn't understand the concept of "friends". Weird.

Ignore all the posters here who have somehow twisted your post to make it sound like you and your son are the problem.

We all know that school Mum cliques are real. We’ve all seen them or heard of them. Most of us have watched Motherland for gods sake.

It’s not nice when you have been part of a group and then all of a sudden you (and your child) is ostracised for no apparent reason. It happens all the time - there are so many threads on here about it.

I would advise just to drop and run. Say hi to those who are pleasant, have a little bit of a chat, but don’t make the mistake of thinking that these women are your friends. You’re more likely to meet better friends through shared interests etc.

Who wants to be friends with Queen bee anyway. I find that kind of Woman really cringey. Swaggering around the school like you own it with your hangers on following after you. It’s embarrassing.

Sorry, but kindly posts like this are part of the problem. How is it helpful to make this person feel paranoid and on edge?

You have no way of knowing whether or not these people really are a "clique" or not.

Regardless of whether or no they are, counselling someone to feel there is a need to feel paranoid about other people they are in day to day contact with is just really counterproductive.