to ask if you care about appearing conventional?

[thatsgotit]

And if so, why?

Inspired by about a zillion threads on MN, though not directly a TAAT.

My own answer: outside of the norms of my job (which are pretty relaxed anyway), I don't personally care so much whether people perceive me as conventional or not. I don't think that makes me special or superior or anything like that - nobody is better or worse than others simply because of the things they do/don't do. I just don't care very much personally about whether people think I'm 'weird' for not following certain conventions (and similarly I don't judge others on whether or not they appear conventional), and am curious why it matters to some.

Again, I'm talking about outside of holding a job or progressing one's career, where obviously these things matter more.

Thoughts?

YABU = it matters
YANBU = so long as you're hurting anyone, it doesn't matter

Hell no.

When I was younger I would have been horrified to appear conventional. Now I don't care.

Yes, it's kind of fascinating. There's an element of fear in the mix, too. Countless times on here I've seen people say that it's "weird" for people in straight relationships to have friends of the opposite sex. You only have to look around to see that actually it's pretty commonplace. What they mean is, "this is something that scares me a bit".

And, without really thinking about it, they extrapolate that personal fear to the whole of society, so that "this thing I find worrying" becomes "this thing outside the norm, outside the boundaries".

How do you know so many ketamine addicts?

I'm just on another thread right now where I've been labelled weird and odd and "best ignored" for not following the majority opinion. It's interesting to me that so many people seem to feel threatened by anyone who disagrees with them (or with the majority generally).

I'm autistic and have been labelled weird, odd and a "freak" my whole life.

I’ll correct this to harmful, ignorant stereotyping then. I’m not even saying all blue-haired people aren’t annoying! I said in a PP, in my REAL LIFE experience: people with blue hair, flowery doc martens, “ironic” seseme street fluffy backpack, and pronoun badges tend to be annoying, socially anxious and very easily offended. But 1. I’ve given a LOT more physical indicators that would indicate someone’s politics and personality, therefore a more accurate basis to stereotype on…and I’ve had meaningful encounters with many of these people in real life, so am speaking from experience when I describe them as annoying & easily offended. Most (not all, because obvs I haven’t met all) are annoying. Therefore I think I’m in a reasonable position to accurately stereotype them. You, on the other hand are not. You’ve described one single physical trait based on having had zero (I’m assuming zero based on how judgemental you are) meaningful encounters with anyone with a blue dye job. Usually the most judgemental people in society live in tiny echo chamber bubbles consisting of people who look and think exactly like them. And are afraid of anyone who doesn’t fit what they deem normal. They disguise that fear with judgement and sneering. I’ve known plenty of people throughout my life who dye their hair a variety of different bright colours just because they’re bored. Many have been gay women who completely reject gender ideology, are not snowflakes, and are outgoing social butterflies. The funniest person I know has had blue hair many times and loves to take the piss out of snowflakes! If this thread was a real life party, I know which side would be getting pissed, dancing and having a laugh with everyone, and I know which side would be sitting in the corner, alone, bored, afraid of any kind of social interaction with anyone who might not be their cup of tea. And I know which side I’d rather party with.

This. It’s all about fear. My dad is a classic example. He’ll label anyone who doesn’t fit conventional norms (hair dyed bright colours, ripped jeans, women doing “men’s” jobs like builders/lorry drivers, gay people, heavily tattooed people etc) as “weird” or “ridiculous” and judge, sneer and make fun of them despite never having had a meaningful encounter with any of them. It’s so obvious that he fears them and feels threatened by them. The only group that he’s actually changed his opinion about is gay people and that is only because I’m gay. Having a gay daughter meant he was suddenly, frequently having meaningful encounters with this “weird” group of people. And surprise, surprise he now realises we don’t all have identical personalities, we don’t all think the same way, or have the same political beliefs, and that we’re not in fact “weird”. It just goes to show it’s all based on fear of the unknown and you’re only in a position to judge someone if you’ve actually had real life experience of and relationships with the people you’re judging.

My mum was like this and I agree its fear.

It spoke to her of 'anarchy' and unpredictability; people who weren't afraid to challenge or question; people who.lived by their own rules rather than societally imposed expectations.

And she didn't like that. She liked conformity and people were were afraid of what other people would think of them.

I get called weird inside and outside of work. Doesnt bother me. I am who I am

This sweeping comment certainly doesn't reflect me 😆I've had bright blue hair for years prior to colours becoming the thing main stream.
I'm very independant thinking, polite, will always help people out if neede.
I don't bother with close friends, too much hard work from past experience. Have been happily married for the last 20+ years, adult kids have never followed convention. Don't give a shit for following the crowd and not bothered what randoms think about me in general. If they are judging me they need to get a more interesting life for themselves instead of wasting it.

Haven't read your other thread but some people need to go any stuff their nastiness up their arses along with the stick. It says more about them than it does you.
They are flawed in their own way and are just sometimes bitchy as a cover up.
I have 2 autistic adult kids and they had similar reactions growing up and still do to a degree. People on here and elsewhere who judge them and people like you need to go fuck themselves.

The only person I know with blue hair, is so far from wokery as any person can be. She's a bitch and she knows it. Certainly not a PC person. Just out for herself and stomps on anyone to get it. Also racist.

I'd avoid her just because she's horrible, not because of her blue hair. So blue hair doesn't always mean someone who is of the descriptions listed above. It's silly to judge by hair colour.

As to answering the op, I think it depends on the mood I am in. I am never wanting to stand out I know that. But I wouldn't say I follow fashions, I just pick what I like when I'm shopping. My work outfits are pretty boring but it's work so that kind of goes. I like big cardigans and baggy tops. I don't like anything clingy.

I've overweight but have been losing weight so maybe some of the above applies to that. But I don't go out of my way to fit in either. People take me as I am as I'm too old to give a damn really, if they don't like me, if I'm conventional or not.

Definitely think a lot of it is driven by fear, though in many cases I can't work out what's to fear about someone who simply doesn't do things conventionally. I remembered last night that I once read a thread on here posted by someone who didn't drink tea or coffee, as I also don't. Tbf, from what I remember most posters saw it as a non-issue but there were a few people who said it was 'a bit weird' for an adult not to drink them and one batshit individual announced that it was such a deeply ingrained ritual (or something like that) that if the OP came to their house and declined tea and coffee they would have difficulty trusting that person. I mean, fearing someone over beverage preferences - what the actual?!

I think the fear is driven by insecurity. Eg. Straight men being homophobic is really just them fearing gay men because they’re not 100% secure in their own sexuality. When it comes to stuff like hair dyed bright colours I think they’re projecting their own insecurity onto them. They see these people having the courage not to follow social norms and that highlights the fact they’re boring & insecure and afraid to be non-conformist themselves. So they mock them to try and reinforce to others that they’re doing life the “right” way and the blue haired lot are doing things the “wrong” way. Then they feel more secure in themselves for a while.

Is that the generic 'you' or are you actually speaking to me?
I don't hate anyone.
'Hate' is a strong word that is thrown about far too much these days.

I think this is a life stage thing, linked to becoming a parent.
When you have DC, it stops being about what's right for you (which may or may not be conventional) and starts being about doing right by and well for them.
The yardstick we have for this is what the 'experts' tell us, and what other people do. There's a great deal of pressure to keep up, expose our DC to this or that experience and way of life, because its the 'best' one to result in healthy well adjusted children.
Even parents who believe themselves 'unconventional' tend to conform to their tribe of people who chosen the same path.
There's a lot of checking on here because people want to be told they're doing OK in the eyes of their peers, so are not short changing their DC.
Ime people past this stage do this checking a lot less and feel freer to go their own way.

My apologies I'll change it to making negative judgements about people you don't know and who aren't giving you or how you look even a moments thought.

@5128gap yes I think that's definitely true. It's such a scary prospect, having to bring up kids without messing them up, that we take refuge in trying to be like everyone else. That lets us off the hook if we do mess them up. If everyone's doing it that way, we can't be blamed for doing it that way, can we?

Are you saying that after becoming parents people try to make sure their dc conform to societal norms? I can see that it’s important to teach your kids to say please and thank you, respect others and be kind in the “normal” accepted way, but for me, becoming a mother hasn’t affected how much I want to or don’t want to conform to society at all. I mean, I suppose part of the reason I want to do well in my career is so my dc can be proud of me, but I don’t feel the need to dress like the other mums when I drop them off to school. In fact I’m actively bringing them up to be curious and question everything. To expose them to all sorts of different people and teach them that everyone is different and deserves respect. I’m teaching them to be proud of where they’ve come from, to own the fact that their family looks a little different and never to be ashamed of that. I’ve also never read a parenting book and don’t believe in blindly following cult-like practices like “gentle parenting” or “authoritative parenting” invented by someone that assumes all children are the same and relationships between all parents and children are the same. I’ve just gone with the flow and relied on the intuition and parental instincts we all have. I also dress my 5 yo DD in both “boys” and “girls” clothes. Sometimes she’ll be rocking skater jeans and a dinosaur t shirt, other times a purple dress. As she gets older I’ll let her express herself however she chooses. Whether she wants to dye her hair blue or get her lip pierced, whatever. I think it’s important not to impose convention on children past what makes sense and is necessary (ie. Manners and respect etc). It makes for more creative, freethinkers IMO

No, I'm not saying people try to make their DC conform. That would actually be quite an unconventional parenting style in an era where being ones 'authentic self' has become highly valued and its generally accepted children should be encouraged to excercise individual choice where appropriate.
I'm saying parents are less likely to throw convention in the bin and live as THEY please, as pressure to live to certain standards, on pain of not doing right by their DC, is strong, and that's why a lot of people on MN check with other parents if their life is 'normal'.
The things you've mentioned for your DC are the conventions of contemporary parenting, which luckily align with your values and lifestyle. People who are by choice or circumstances doing something different often worry they may be getting it wrong.

Well, I don't disagree, but what constitutes 'normal' or 'approved' is so dependent on things like time period, social class, culture, who the parenting gurus of a particular era are, and individual personalities and exposure to different points of view.

My parents (poor end of the WC, both left school at 13, timid, conformist people who would have been terrified to stand out in any way) tried to get me to leave school at 15 (in the late 80s) and get a job in a shop, and actively discouraged any idea of university which was 'only for rich people', even though we were in an era of council grants, and in fact, I got through university entirely on scholarships and grants.

My point is that their idea of a 'conventional' life was 'leave school at 15, get a job in a shop, or an office if you had aspirations, marry young, live locally, and be a SAHM to three or more children.'

I didn't do that, and although my life hasn't been in the least unconventional by most standards, it's deeply unconventional by their standards, and they've always been rather disappointed in me and my siblings, and embarrassed by us, because our lives don't meet their idea of 'successful-but-normal lives.'

Good point, I don’t have kids so haven’t ever needed to worry about that particular layer of convention. I can see why people would though.

I don't think about it. I don't follow fashion and have never dressed like any of my friends. I do lean towards bright and bold, but because that's what suits me.
I certainly don't judge people with blue/pink/green hair, like some PPs. People I have known " like that" haven't been particularly needy or attention seeking. They've all been different personalities.

If my life during my 20's and 30's was a film it would have been a mash up between Human Traffic and Trainspotting.

Fortunately, I managed to avoid the really damaging behaviours and have emerged remarkably unscathed 😂

🤣🤣I love this and will freely admit I dip dyed my hair turquoise as it blended with my t shirt.
Lots of people complimented me about it.
That is the beauty of semi permanent vegan hair dyes.
No deep mystery just a bit of fun.