to ask if you care about appearing conventional?

[thatsgotit]

And if so, why?

Inspired by about a zillion threads on MN, though not directly a TAAT.

My own answer: outside of the norms of my job (which are pretty relaxed anyway), I don't personally care so much whether people perceive me as conventional or not. I don't think that makes me special or superior or anything like that - nobody is better or worse than others simply because of the things they do/don't do. I just don't care very much personally about whether people think I'm 'weird' for not following certain conventions (and similarly I don't judge others on whether or not they appear conventional), and am curious why it matters to some.

Again, I'm talking about outside of holding a job or progressing one's career, where obviously these things matter more.

Thoughts?

YABU = it matters
YANBU = so long as you're hurting anyone, it doesn't matter

I can see both sides of the blue hair debate lol. Blue hair + flowery doc martens + pronoun badges + Bertie from Seaseme Street backpack does tend to equal v. annoying, socially awkward, easily offended people. This is based on many real life encounters.

This is EXACTLY my experience too. I work in a university and it’s full of these sort of people. They ARE the convention, although they’ll deny they are. And so easily offended. Why linger with these people? They’re hard work.

I would say you aren't accounting for the fact that many people are shy and often dont feel comfortable striking up a conversation a complete stranger until they've seen you around a few times. That's actually a well known psychological phenomenon and you have no idea whether they simply felt familiar enough with you to chat to you after seeing you around several times and that it might have absolutely zero to do with your hair colour.

I recently struck up a friendship with someone at my gym because we kept bumping into each other and after a while it felt familiar enough and "socially safe" to strike up a conversation- both of us are quite shy. It had nothing whatsoever to do with appearances so your "test" is likely not testing for what you think it is.

The problem is the mass generalisation people are making about blue-haired people. It’s clear the ones who are judging haven’t had any kind of meaningful encounter with a blue-haired person. If they had they’d realise everyone is an individual with unique personality traits. It’s pretty ignorant and not dissimilar to the white supremacists who’ve never met a black person yet believe they’re all the scourge of society

Fair enough, just seems like a test and a bit cynical. I would never present myself in a particular way to test people, seems like way too much effort! I don’t think I would also notice or read that much into interactions. People are very nervous during freshers weeks. It seems unfair to judge and test people in this way.

I use “blue hair” as a shorthand for anyone who seems an activist type person. They don’t have to have literal blue hair but if they have similar or an associated look they are usually difficult and judgemental.

Being performatively and deliberately unconventional, in a way in which being 'unconventional' is your super special identity that somehow becomes the centre of every conversation? YABU and annoying.

Being unconventional in such a way that is unnecessarily bothersome to people, like running around the woods naked? YABU and inconsiderate.

Being unconventional in such a way that you just don't particularly care about fashion/trends/keeping up with the Joneses/presenting a false face to the world, and are quietly and nonconfrontationally a bit odd? YANBU, enjoy being yourself.

@BlueJuniper94

it's odd that you appear to contradict yourself - you agree that it is in-group signalling, but then what is that group if not a subculture, what do they have in common other yet their hair? It's the outward signifier of their tribes values - which if hair is dyed blue they probably eschew "tradition" and conservative values. Then again, some punks were nazis, so there are exceptions. Find me a blue haired person who defends fox hunting and I will eat my hat.

It's not a contradiction at all. I agree with you that people who deliberately modify an element of their appearance are tribe-signaling. Almost everyone does it to a degree, even if only because they don't have the energy to think about what they wear.

But I disagree that you can conclude everything about their politics/values/personality from that. I literally don't think its possible for you to have screened every individual in the country with blue hair to establish their politics. Particularly as politics and identify are so fluid these days. There are people who identify as radical feminists who are deeply opposed to the trans lobby, for example. And card-carrying Tories who are gay and spend their weekends going to punk rock gigs.

Tribes are about how people want to be seen socially and how they want to interact with others. If they ever did align neatly along political lines they certainly don't any more. I don't personally know any blue-haired fox-hunting supporters but I'd bet my house there are some.

More to the point, I think its deeply hypocritical for you to assume that its OK for you to write off everyone who dyes their hair blue and presumably expect other people not to judge you for dying your hair blonde (or whatever conventional signifier you prefer to adopt).

Irony being you aren’t as it’s very much a look. We are tribal aren’t we, we still operate in our primitive brain like if we go against that tribe (whatever the tribe is) we will get chucked out and we will die. I mean tribe in the older sense of the word not social media “I’ve found my tribe”.

and convention changes. At one point showing one’s ankles would have been going against convention or wearing white gloves after a certain date.

I honestly don't know if I'm conventional or not - it probably really depends what you measure it against.

Up to the point where it might start to interfere with social or even societal functioning, I do not care. Some people, I'm sure, think I'm unconventional while others would probably find me extremely conservative.

What I cannot stand, however, is inauthentic.

no not at all

I experienced a childhood of being asked about myself as I stood out as different and that was interesting to others

more than happy to blend in the background

I like to "blend in" as in opposed to someone seeking attention I absolutely do not want it. Personality wise I think I'm unconventional as I don't enjoy things most people seem to do; concerts, theatre, gatherings, parties etc. I pretended to like it in my twenties because I didn't want to be odd but now in my forties I'm embracing my need for calm and solitude. I like to see friends occasionally but not in group settings. My dh is the opposite and he def thinks I'm weird but appreciates that I'm the default parent to stay at home with dc so he can go out and be social. I used to make an effort at the school gate for my dc (playdates etc) but they are now in secondary so no need for that.

"There are people who identify as radical feminists who are deeply opposed to the trans lobby, for example." - the fact you think it's some kind of contradiction for feminists not to centre men is blowing my mind

Sure. Maybe there are people that like to cosplay as if they belong to subcultures but in fact they're closet Reform voters. I'm sure there's thousands of them out there.

Not really but then it’s easy not to care because I am conventional. Might as well call me Standardised Sandra as far as looks/family set up/career/ hobbies go.

We all judge, it’s how we’ve survived as a race.

@BlueJuniper94

Sure. Maybe there are people that like to cosplay as if they belong to subcultures but in fact they're closet Reform voters. I'm sure there's thousands of them out there.

I'll bet you any money there are Reform supporters with blue hair.

And not just of the blue rinse variety.

This is so judgemental and ridiculous

You would probably avoid me anyway - I would dye my hair to make sure but blue doesn't suit me.

The flaw in your argument is that black people don't choose to be black, but people with blue hair choose to die it that colour. They are making a deliberate statement about themselves to society.

And it is quite reasonable to judge them for making that choice, as it does signal that they are part of a particular sub-culture whereby this is the sort of thing that that group of people do.

Are either of those things conventional. I dont look at childless or single friends and think crikey they are bucking the trend.

am I not judgmental enough?!

What a completely mad discussion this has turned into! Just enjoy your tribe, whoever they may be, and let others enjoy theirs.

To give another example, it seems to be the convention for some right-wing American women to have long blonde hair, dyed if necessary. Every woman I see on TV who is either republican or a trump supporter has this look.

So whilst it is not conventional for ALL American women to have long blonde hair, it seems to be a convention for a particular subset to do so. I guess they care very much about this convention, because constantly touching up roots and managing long hair every morning is a pain in the backside.

As for me, I like to think I don't care, but I probably do, more than I realise.

Wise words.

I currently have blue hair. Before that it was lavender, and I'm going pink next. I'm 57, very normal, a PA in the NHS. I don't want anyone's attention, I just don't want boring mostly grey hair.

My politics don't come into it.

I would introduce you to my MIL, but she's a bit dead. 😂

Oh, I am entirely conventional. Thank God for conventions so that there's a ready to go acceptable standard that you can just pick up and then get on with the important stuff.